Out-of-body experiences

[Compassionist]

Has anyone on this forum had an out-of-body experience? I bought this book Navigating the Out-of-Body Experience: Radical New Techniques on 23 August 2018 and have been trying to have one since then but still have not managed to have one. I would be grateful if you would share your experiences with me. Thank you.

[William]

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Compassionist: Thank you. I can't wait to get to my omnibenevolent heaven for all.

William: The Jehovah's Witness sect have a similar hope as you do. For me, it is important to understand real from illusion in relation to Metaphysical manifestations.
In that, I am interested in how my beliefs and attitudes create said illusion, but am not interested in maintaining said illusion forever. I will maintain it for as long as it takes to serve its purpose and then I will want to let it go and move on to discovering what is real.

[Compassionist]

@

Compassionist: Thank you. I can't wait to get to my omnibenevolent heaven for all.

William: The Jehovah's Witness sect have a similar hope as you do. For me, it is important to understand real from illusion in relation to Metaphysical manifestations.
In that, I am interested in how my beliefs and attitudes create said illusion, but am not interested in maintaining said illusion forever. I will maintain it for as long as it takes to serve its purpose and then I will want to let it go and move on to discovering what is real.

How do you know what is real? Isn't real whatever we perceive through our senses and our internal experiences e.g. proprioception, thoughts and emotions? Solipsism can't be proven or disproven. Simulation hypothesis can't be tested.

[William]

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Compassionist: How do you know what is real? Isn't real whatever we perceive through our senses and our internal experiences e.g. proprioception, thoughts and emotions? Solipsism can't be proven or disproven. Simulation hypothesis can't be tested.

William: *Bingo* This is exactly the dilemma! This is why I created the sub-forum "Around The Camp Fire" because of the realization that we are all effectively role-playing.
I am informed by those who believe such, that 'reality' is 'The Physical Universe' and no thing exists outside of said 'reality'.
Why is this a compelling argument?
It is because we are altogether experiencing the Physical Universe as 'real', and our experience ends in 'death' and it is 'all in the brain' etc...
On the surface the argument seems logical enough, but we cannot say for sure that death is - in fact - the end of our experience of anything.

The conclusion as to what is actually real, has to be that the only thing which IS actually REAL, is that which experiences. Not the experience itself. Only that which is having the experience can be considered as being real.

[Compassionist]

@

Compassionist: How do you know what is real? Isn't real whatever we perceive through our senses and our internal experiences e.g. proprioception, thoughts and emotions? Solipsism can't be proven or disproven. Simulation hypothesis can't be tested.

William: *Bingo* This is exactly the dilemma! This is why I created the sub-forum "Around The Camp Fire" because of the realization that we are all effectively role-playing.
I am informed by those who believe such, that 'reality' is 'The Physical Universe' and no thing exists outside of said 'reality'.
Why is this a compelling argument?
It is because we are altogether experiencing the Physical Universe as 'real', and our experience ends in 'death' and it is 'all in the brain' etc...
On the surface the argument seems logical enough, but we cannot say for sure that death is - in fact - the end of our experience of anything.

The conclusion as to what is actually real, has to be that the only thing which IS actually REAL, is that which experiences. Not the experience itself. Only that which is having the experience can be considered as being real.

All I have are qualia. Not all qualia are equal. For example, you and I both see the qualia of the words on this message. I can confirm to you that these words exist. Likewise, you can confirm to me that these words exist by replying to this post. However, both you and the computer I am using could be part of an intricate simulation designed by aliens to torment me with philosophical questions about what is real and what is not. I have no way of knowing whether you and my computer are really real. As I said, all I have are qualia. That's all I can be certain about. Everything else is questionable. Some qualia are painful e.g. falling on ice hurts. Some qualia are pleasurable e.g. eating a vegan ice-cream. It is possible that my perceived reality (all of my qualia) is actually objectively real but it is also possible that they are simulated. I have no way to be 100% certain about the ultimate nature of reality. I can only be 100% certain about my perceived reality e.g. falling on ice hurts, eating vegan ice-cream is tasty, etc.

[William]

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Compassionist: All I have

William: At this point I will point out that you used the word "I" ten times in your post...the word "me" twice and the word "you" five times...plus of course, once for the word "aliens..."

Compassionist: All I have are qualia. Not all qualia are equal. For example, you and I both see the qualia of the words on this message. I can confirm to you that these words exist. Likewise, you can confirm to me that these words exist by replying to this post. However, both you and the computer I am using could be part of an intricate simulation designed by aliens to torment me with philosophical questions about what is real and what is not.

William: Perhaps you didn't quite understand what I wrote regarding the only real 'thing' is that which is doing the experiencing.
If one contemplates that, one should eventually be able to grasp that 'you' and 'I' (and the 'alien') are what is real.
In that, I am saying, it is not our forms and situations which are real, but - as in role-play - it is the consciousness within the situations of form which is real.

True, we cannot know that we are not in some simulation aliens have created. Whether we react in 'torment' or not regarding the situation, we decide for ourselves.
I dear say, that assuming such a position of being victims of circumstance, create obstacles to our finding out.

Compassionist: I have no way of knowing whether you and my computer are really real.

William: I am real. You are real. Our computers are not real, in the same sense. What they are, are devices we use to communicate with each other, much the same way as Ouija devices are used to communicate with otherwise invisible beings.
We are - to each other, in this circumstance - invisible entities.

Compassionist: As I said, all I have are qualia. That's all I can be certain about. Everything else is questionable.

William: Individual instances of subjective, conscious experience are what we experience, not what we are. While we do have experiences, we are not those experiences. We are that which experiences those things. The reason we experience those things as REAL, is because WE are real.
You can be certain about that.

Compassionist: It is possible that my perceived reality (all of my qualia) is actually objectively real but it is also possible that they are simulated.

William: Regardless of that, what is most certain is that you are real. You, yourself are not a simulation.

Compassionist: I have no way to be 100% certain about the ultimate nature of reality. I can only be 100% certain about my perceived reality.

William: You can be certain that you exist. How you perceive reality doesn't matter, as long as it is not shaping your character unduly. There is no reason why you cannot perceive it as real and objective for as long as you are experiencing it, but once you stop experiencing it, it may never again be real to you...except as a memory, which itself might eventually fade - if indeed, there is more to experience after this.

When you can understand you and me and aliens etc as consciousness and that it is consciousness that is the real, then form is only real in relation to our experiencing it, and in that, is secondary to the question.
Consciousness being the real, is what decides what then is real and what is not, depending upon the type of simulation we are experiencing.
It is consciousness which makes things real, but consciousness cannot be said to be a 'thing'.

[Compassionist]

William, are you a dualist or a monist? I am agnostic about the existence of immortal souls, about solipsism, about simulation hypothesis, about illusion hypothesis, about the ultimate nature of reality, about the existence of faith-based constructs e.g. gods, angels, demons, heaven, hell, resurrection, reincarnation, etc.

You said that I can be certain that I exist but I am not convinced. Yes, I have a sense of self and I experience sensory perceptions, proprioception, thoughts and emotions but this sense dissolves during deep meditation, during sleep without dreaming, during unconscious state, during dissociative state and probably when my brain dies.

[William]

[Replying to post 26 by ]

Compassionist: William, are you a dualist or a monist?

William: Neither. I am consciousness.
Within the structure of the Human Experience, these things you ask "am I" are positions of belief.
In regard to the next phase, I understand that belief and accompanying attitude self-create for the individual, what they will then experience.

Compassionist: I am agnostic about the existence of immortal souls...

William: That is a position. Do you think it is one of belief, when coupled with the concept of 'the soul' or does it remain simply a position?
If it is simply a position, then what use is such a position to anyone wanting to find out knowledge regarding the soul?
Your position appears to be slightly more than an agnostic. Perhaps, more the 'curious agnostic'?

Compassionist: ...about solipsism

William: Solipsism is GODs position in relation to experience, as far as I have ascertained.
As particles of GODs consciousness, within form, having experiences - we understand the idea of Solipsism. Yet we cannot really claim we alone are real, and all 'other consciousnesses' are simply creations of our own, without demeaning those other consciousnesses. and therefore demeaning our self.


Compassionist: ...about simulation hypothesis

William: We can think of our self as being within a simulation and in that, we can ascertain to some degree as to why we are in this particular simulation. My own understanding of simulated universes is that whatever we - as particles of GOD-Consciousness are experiencing, is essentially simulation, because things are not real in the same way that Consciousness experiencing those things are real.
Are simulations real? Only as far as the consciousnesses experiencing them decide.Do I think this universe is real? In as far as I am having a real experience, yes!
The fact that one can alter the experience and glimpse alternate experience, is subjective evidence that we are dealing with simulation.

Compassionist:...about illusion hypothesis

William: Illusion hypothesis is a weak argument which appears to declare that there is no GOD, the universe is real and is all that exists, the person is a product of the brain and when the human instrument dies, that is the end of the brief existence of the person. It reduces everything to nothing much at all. It is the one argument that basically tries to convince the individual they are not even real.
I understand the argument as self-defeating. We are in a maze of mystery and the argument tells us to sit down, stare at the dead-end wall and give up trying to work things out.

Compassionist:...about the ultimate nature of reality...

William: Is Consciousness.

Compassionist:...about the existence of faith-based constructs e.g. gods, angels, demons, heaven, hell, resurrection, reincarnation, etc.

William: These things - being human beliefs - are made real in the next simulation to be experienced. As such, they can indeed be experience as real.

Compassionist: You said that I can be certain that I exist but I am not convinced.

William: Then to who am I communicating with? Should I too, 'not be convinced' that you are real?
This gets back to what I wrote about above, to do with the idea of Solipsism.

Compassionist: Yes, I have a sense of self and I experience sensory perceptions, proprioception, thoughts and emotions but this sense dissolves during deep meditation, during sleep without dreaming, during unconscious state, during dissociative state and probably when my brain dies.

William: So you deduce from that, that you do not exist? Or do you deduce from that, 'you' are someone else?

The Human Instrument is what we each are experiencing, and through that, what we think of as the physical universe
Often the 'who I am' is solidly linked with the self-identifying as said Human instrument.
Most people tend to leave it at that.
But 'who are we really?'

I discovered through consistent use of a device created for the purpose of communication through ideomotor effect,, that the answer to the question is positively "I am far more than I think I am".

It didn't immediately start out that way, but was discovered to be the case after much ground-work was done in preparation for the reveal, and that process took at least a couple of years of almost daily use.

Essentially ideomotor phenomena can enable the studious - through proper use - to connect with what appear to be 'other' entities, and for me this amounted to starting out communicating with a very basic entity with limited communication skills, and eventually graduating from there with entities more advanced in the art of communication.

In the end, I was informed that I had actually be communicating with aspects of my SELF, to which - in my ordinary framework of Human experience - I had regarded as 'other entities'.

Through correct use of Ideomotor Effect, the individual learns how to engage with that mysterious thing called 'subconscious' 'unconscious' and 'super-conscious'.
Some call it 'higher self' or 'GOD'.

The illusion of self in regard to 'the mind' through the Human experience, is but a very tiny portion of who each of us really ARE.


I ended up creating quite a few Message Boards for this purpose, the first of which ended up looking like this:



Indeed, it is role-play, and the individual learns to understand that they are not the center of the universe, but rather - an aspect of a far larger being, used as a type of satellite for the purpose of - not only gathering data through the Human Experience, but also someone on the edge of things who is entitled to join the 'Inner Circle' as acceptance and recognition of ones True Self becomes the 'new normal'.

Essentially in Role-Play, we tiny selves engage with 'others' who are really all aspects of the One Entity. The illusion of thinking that the 'self' is that tiny individual thing called a 'Human', brings its own troubles within the framework of the 'Stage' where the role-play is being enacted...here on a Living Planet, literally in the middle of 'nowhere'.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to post 27 by William]

Thank you for your detailed reply. Yes, I know that I am conscious but how would I know if you or anyone else is conscious? You could be philosophical zombies and I have no way to check if you are conscious or not. If we are aspects of One Entity, why did 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth go extinct? Isn't the One Entity diminished by such mass extinctions? Why is there so much suffering and injustice? We live in a reality where might is right and one must either adapt or die. Ultimately, everyone fails to adapt and consequently dies. History shows again and again that if one has enough power, one gets away with anything. All the people who harmed me or my relatives and friends (the kidnapper, the rapist, the murderers, the robbers, the thieves, the bullies, the liars, the reckless drivers) got away with their wrongdoings. If the One Entity you speak of is real, isn't this being evil? If this being is omniscient and omnipotent, doesn't that make this being omniculpable?

[William]

Compassionist: Yes, I know that I am conscious but how would I know if you or anyone else is conscious?

William: We cannot really claim we alone are real, and all 'other consciousnesses' are simply creations of our own, without demeaning those other consciousnesses. And therefore demeaning our self.
How would your omnibenevolence answer the puzzle?

Compassionist: I have no way to check if you are conscious or not.

William: Then who are you communicating with? Yourself? If you are consciousness, why would you doubt that I am not?

Compassionist: If we are aspects of One Entity, why did 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth go extinct? Isn't the One Entity diminished by such mass extinctions?

William: Why would that matter? They are simply forms. Forms are for experiencing through. Like vehicles are for using. Extinction is simply having no further use for those forms.
Even if there where absolutely NO forms, how would this diminish the One Entity?

Compassionist: Why is there so much suffering and injustice?

William: Why is there so much pleasure and Justice as well? If there was ONLY suffering and injustice, then your question would be useful. As it is, it simply focuses upon aspects of our shared situation and not the wholeness of our situation.
Whether we focus only on the less liked conditions or not regarding our situation, we decide for ourselves.
I dear say, that assuming such a position of being victims of circumstance, create obstacles to our finding out.

Compassionist: We live in a reality where might is right and one must either adapt or die.

William: So we adapt to the situation or - as a species we face extinction. The nature of the simulated environment forces us to each decide. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to react to the circumstance.
I have found that the best position to assume is a non-judgmental acceptance of the situation which assists one in not being a victim of circumstance, even though I admit that many things have happened to me which have resulted in my assuming a victim position in relation to my situation. The antidote for me was to raise above that and self empower myself regardless.
Admittedly this is no easy task - but inevitably it has proven to serve me well.

This Physical Universe is no place for the faint-of-heart, but we have a means of dealing with that without being reduced to mere animal behaviour.

Compassionist: Ultimately, everyone fails to adapt and consequently dies.

William: How is death a matter of 'failing to adapt'?

Compassionist: History shows again and again that if one has enough power, one gets away with anything.

William: A slight exaggeration, but yes, the nature of the environment gives this opportunity to exploit. Death removes that from the possessor eventually. So in that, ultimately, no one 'gets' away' with anything.

Compassionist: All the people who harmed me or my relatives and friends (the kidnapper, the rapist, the murderers, the robbers, the thieves, the bullies, the liars, the reckless drivers) got away with their wrongdoings.

William: If indeed there is the next phase we each and all will experience, and it is a place which responds to the individuals beliefs and attitudes, then those who have done you wrong, will receive their 'just rewards'.

Compassionist: If the One Entity you speak of is real, isn't this being evil?

William: The One Entity is not the one who wronged you.
You are an aspect of the One Entity, as we each are. Aspects of the One Entity harmed you. Why does this then have to equate to the One Entity therefore being 'evil'. What about the aspects of the One Entity which are benevolent toward you?Does this equate to the One Entity being 'good'?
In what way have those evil actions against you, actually caused you any permanent debilitating harm, to which you cannot forgive, and therefore takes your power back?

Compassionist: If this being is omniscient and omnipotent, doesn't that make this being omniculpable?

William: I have not made any argument that the One Entity is omniscient and omnipotent.
I have written that it is culpable in relation to us each being aspects of IT, but this in itself does not mean we have a clear and precise verdict as to ITs true nature.
IF there were only 'good' or 'evil' then we would indeed have a clear indication of Its nature.
We cannot say that IT is either one or the other, if indeed we consider our self as 'good' because then we would have to explain why we - as 'good' are aspects of IT, which is 'evil' or argue that we somehow are absolutely separate consciousnesses from it, which of course branches out into dualism, where there exists two entities, one absolutely 'good' and one absolutely 'evil', which only adds an unnecessary complication to an already complicated mystery.

[Compassionist]

Compassionist: Yes, I know that I am conscious but how would I know if you or anyone else is conscious?

William: We cannot really claim we alone are real, and all 'other consciousnesses' are simply creations of our own, without demeaning those other consciousnesses. And therefore demeaning our self.
How would your omnibenevolence answer the puzzle?

Compassionist: I have no way to check if you are conscious or not.

William: Then who are you communicating with? Yourself? If you are consciousness, why would you doubt that I am not?

Compassionist: If we are aspects of One Entity, why did 99.99% of all living things to ever evolve on Earth go extinct? Isn't the One Entity diminished by such mass extinctions?

William: Why would that matter? They are simply forms. Forms are for experiencing through. Like vehicles are for using. Extinction is simply having no further use for those forms.
Even if there where absolutely NO forms, how would this diminish the One Entity?

Compassionist: Why is there so much suffering and injustice?

William: Why is there so much pleasure and Justice as well? If there was ONLY suffering and injustice, then your question would be useful. As it is, it simply focuses upon aspects of our shared situation and not the wholeness of our situation.
Whether we focus only on the less liked conditions or not regarding our situation, we decide for ourselves.
I dear say, that assuming such a position of being victims of circumstance, create obstacles to our finding out.

Compassionist: We live in a reality where might is right and one must either adapt or die.

William: So we adapt to the situation or - as a species we face extinction. The nature of the simulated environment forces us to each decide. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to react to the circumstance.
I have found that the best position to assume is a non-judgmental acceptance of the situation which assists one in not being a victim of circumstance, even though I admit that many things have happened to me which have resulted in my assuming a victim position in relation to my situation. The antidote for me was to raise above that and self empower myself regardless.
Admittedly this is no easy task - but inevitably it has proven to serve me well.

This Physical Universe is no place for the faint-of-heart, but we have a means of dealing with that without being reduced to mere animal behaviour.

Compassionist: Ultimately, everyone fails to adapt and consequently dies.

William: How is death a matter of 'failing to adapt'?

Compassionist: History shows again and again that if one has enough power, one gets away with anything.

William: A slight exaggeration, but yes, the nature of the environment gives this opportunity to exploit. Death removes that from the possessor eventually. So in that, ultimately, no one 'gets' away' with anything.

Compassionist: All the people who harmed me or my relatives and friends (the kidnapper, the rapist, the murderers, the robbers, the thieves, the bullies, the liars, the reckless drivers) got away with their wrongdoings.

William: If indeed there is the next phase we each and all will experience, and it is a place which responds to the individuals beliefs and attitudes, then those who have done you wrong, will receive their 'just rewards'.

Compassionist: If the One Entity you speak of is real, isn't this being evil?

William: The One Entity is not the one who wronged you.
You are an aspect of the One Entity, as we each are. Aspects of the One Entity harmed you. Why does this then have to equate to the One Entity therefore being 'evil'. What about the aspects of the One Entity which are benevolent toward you?Does this equate to the One Entity being 'good'?
In what way have those evil actions against you, actually caused you any permanent debilitating harm, to which you cannot forgive, and therefore takes your power back?

Compassionist: If this being is omniscient and omnipotent, doesn't that make this being omniculpable?

William: I have not made any argument that the One Entity is omniscient and omnipotent.
I have written that it is culpable in relation to us each being aspects of IT, but this in itself does not mean we have a clear and precise verdict as to ITs true nature.
IF there were only 'good' or 'evil' then we would indeed have a clear indication of Its nature.
We cannot say that IT is either one or the other, if indeed we consider our self as 'good' because then we would have to explain why we - as 'good' are aspects of IT, which is 'evil' or argue that we somehow are absolutely separate consciousnesses from it, which of course branches out into dualism, where there exists two entities, one absolutely 'good' and one absolutely 'evil', which only adds an unnecessary complication to an already complicated mystery.

Thank you for your detailed reply. You haven't provided me with a solution to the philosophical zombie problem I mentioned in my previous post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

How do you know that the One Entity you speak of exists? Can you prove your claim that the One Entity exists?

Life consists of both suffering and enjoyment. Some suffer more, some enjoy more. It is unfair from start to finish.

My best friend was murdered by a terrorist. The murderer was never arrested and prosecuted. So, he got away with it.

My cousin's daughter was beaten to death by her husband. He got away with it, too.

You say that the criminals will get punished after death but there is no evidence to prove that there is life after death. Out-of-body experiences and Near-death-experiences can be explained away as products of malfunctioning brains. They don't prove life after death.

The people who kidnapped me, raped me, beat me up, called me names, etc. cause long-term damage to me. I have flashbacks and intrusive thoughts every day. I have nightmares every night. I have been suffering from Bipolar Affective Disorder for 22 years. I have been suffering from chronic pain for 11 years. I have to suffer from many side-effects of the medication I take for my Bipolar Affective Disorder. These side-effects include ectopic heart beats, constipation, dry mouth, excessive thirst, excessive hunger, weight gain, chronic cough, chronic blocked nose and sinuses, drowsiness, etc. My life is full of constant suffering. Every day I wish I were never conceived. I hate how full of suffering and injustice my life is, indeed, most life is.

Things I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:

1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering and death and injustice.
2. Make all living things equally omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent and be the owner of an infinite number of universes each.
3. End all diseases, health problems, deaths, etc.
4. Prevent all natural disasters.
5. Prevent all accidents.
6. Prevent all violence, killings, rapes, kidnappings, tortures, crimes, persecutions, bullying, bigotry, hypocrisy, selfishness, cruelty, etc.
7. Prevent all malevolence, indifference and ignorance.
8. Give everyone the ability to teleport everywhere in an infinite number of universes across an infinite number of timelines.
9. Prevent all poverty.

Things I have done, still do (or will do) even though I don't want to do them:

1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13.Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Suffer
19. Have flashbacks
20. Have intrusive thoughts
21. Have delusions
22. Have hallucinations
23. Die

How do you know that the criminals had free will and could have refrained from committing those crimes? If I had the genes, environments, nutrients and experiences of Joseph Stalin would I not have killed 9 million people the way he did? Aren't all biological organisms simply prisoners of causality who live inevitable lives making inevitable choices? If I had the genes, environments, nutrients and experiences of a female anopheles mosquito would I not be infecting people with malaria the way she does? How am I free? I am not free. No one is free. We are all doomed to be conceived into a horrific world without our consent. We are all doomed to suffer and doomed to die. Life is a horror movie - one is conceived, one suffers, one dies.

You asked, how is death a failure to adapt. If someone shoots you with a bullet and you fail to dodge it that is a failure to adapt to changing circumstances. If you are infected with dengue fever and you fail to defeat the germs before they kill you that is a failure to adapt. If your cells are degenerating due to ageing and you fail to repair them and die that is also a failure to adapt to change. Suffering and death awaits all sentient organisms.