Forever And Ever

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William
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Forever And Ever

Post #1

Post by William »

If you could live forever, what kind of environment would you want to exist within if you could chose it?

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #11

Post by Dimmesdale »

Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:32 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:05 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:57 am
I know what happiness on earth is. I certainly don't need to beg some being that has never been proven to exist outside human imagination to achieve it. I've achieved it on my own. It's sad to realize that some humans aren't capable of doing so.


Tcg
I am actually skeptical that you have achieved happiness.
This is nothing but a reflection on your own experience. It says nothing about mine.
Tcg
I think I have sufficient empathy to know that, from what I've read about people in general, most aren't that happy for long. Most people, in novels and movies for instance, are constantly struggling to make it in the world, and are thus perpetually dissatisfied. And this is a reflection of current society. Of course some people do have happiness and you may be one of them. I just think that life in general nowadays is unhappy.

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #12

Post by Dimmesdale »

Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:48 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:05 pm
In my humble opinion, I think you are mistaking prosperity for happiness. Prosperity can be definitely achieved, and many have achieved it.
Prosperity? Me? The most valuable thing I own is a $400 guitar amp. It's a cool '67 black-line Silverface Champ, but that hardly makes me prosperous.


Tcg
Prosperity may be the wrong word. I don't mean that you are extremely wealthy, just that your needs are met and you are economically secure, more or less.

I assume you live in a Western democracy? By that standard you have prosperity. And I assume that level of money runs in tandem with the happiness you seek. That they are intertwined.

True happiness on the other hand does not rely so much on money, if at all. That's in a sense my point: we are scrambling for the next good thing, not content. So we are not really that happy.

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #13

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:28 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:32 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:05 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:57 am
I know what happiness on earth is. I certainly don't need to beg some being that has never been proven to exist outside human imagination to achieve it. I've achieved it on my own. It's sad to realize that some humans aren't capable of doing so.


Tcg
I am actually skeptical that you have achieved happiness.
This is nothing but a reflection on your own experience. It says nothing about mine.
Tcg
Most people, in novels and movies for instance, are constantly struggling to make it in the world, and are thus perpetually dissatisfied.
You are presenting novels and movies as evidence of reality?

Of course some people do have happiness and you may be one of them.
As I have already stated, I am. I have achieved this without any reliance on god/gods which have never been shown to exist outside the imagination of humans.

I just think that life in general nowadays is unhappy.
Which has no bearing on the happiness I've achieved.


Tcg

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #14

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:32 pm That's in a sense my point: we are scrambling for the next good thing, not content. So we are not really that happy.
That may be your experience. It most definitely isn't mine.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #15

Post by Dimmesdale »

Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:35 pm
You are presenting novels and movies as evidence of reality?
Absolutely. They are social commentary. Like The Great Gatsby is evidence of the psychology of the roaring 20s, and so on.
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:35 pmAs I have already stated, I am. I have achieved this without any reliance on god/gods which have never been shown to exist outside the imagination of humans.
I don't see any reason to have to believe you. A lot of people claiming to be happy, really aren't, by any reasonable standard. Criminals after all may be addicted to crack and indulge in prostitution. They may be happy in their eyes. Would you say they are by your own standard? Well, I have my own standard of happiness, and for me, if it doesn't include God, then it is a very cheap life, not happy at all.
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:35 pm Which has no bearing on the happiness I've achieved.

Tcg
I think it does. Because in my mind, atheists lack the ultimate source of happiness. But you may think yourself happy, and I can't argue with that.

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #16

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:44 pm But you may think yourself happy, and I can't argue with that.
I don't think myself happy, I am happy. As you say, you can't argue with that. Although strangely you have been and without a single bit of verifiable evidence to support your argumentation.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #17

Post by Dimmesdale »

Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:48 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:44 pm But you may think yourself happy, and I can't argue with that.
I don't think myself happy, I am happy. As you say, you can't argue with that. Although strangely you have been and without a single bit of verifiable evidence to support your argumentation.

Tcg
Uhm, I said you may THINK yourself happy. Whether you are really, genuinely happy is a whole other kettle of fish. I only have your word on that, and I don't trust it.

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #18

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:51 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:48 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:44 pm But you may think yourself happy, and I can't argue with that.
I don't think myself happy, I am happy. As you say, you can't argue with that. Although strangely you have been and without a single bit of verifiable evidence to support your argumentation.

Tcg
Uhm, I said you may THINK yourself happy. Whether you are really, genuinely happy is a whole other kettle of fish. I only have your word on that, and I don't trust it.
Yes, I responded to precisely what you stated. Your inability to accept the reality that I am happy doesn't change the fact that I am happy.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #19

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:44 pm
I think it does. Because in my mind, atheists lack the ultimate source of happiness.
This is not surprising given that the only place this god you rely on for happiness exists is indeed in your mind. Atheists of course don't share your mind and therefore are free to, and have found, happiness that does not depend on a god that exists only in the mind of others.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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William
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Re: Forever And Ever

Post #20

Post by William »

Looking at it from another point of view - what if we are eternal beings and this particular experience was created by us in order to give some respite/change by introducing beginnings and endings in which we could indulge in [and sleep in which we could experience resting.... ]?

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