God of the gaps for atheists

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Wootah
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God of the gaps for atheists

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Recently I wrote:
You know, a lot of atheist talk is like a lifelong prisoner no longer believing there is anything outside the prison cell. Religion or not I just don't think it is justifiable. I do think it is a worldview and when I point it out atheists tend to get very offended (as if I attacked a sacred belief).
This is a discussion of what this means and if it is valid claim.

We know the sun rises and sets every day, day in and day out. Assuming only common sense knowledge you would be right to assume that it will always be the case.

Similarly for death. Assuming common sense knowledge you would be right to assume death is the end of life.

But then someone shows that the sun is a ball of energy and is burning up and you realise that one day the sun will not rise (or set). That it is simply a habit of life that you assumed was normal.

To date, the atheist believes death is the end, because of the same reasoning. As soon as someone rises from the dead that satisfies their burden of proof then they will change their view.

But this has two philosophical issues.

1) Humes problem of induction
https://beisecker.faculty.unlv.edu/Cour ... uction.htm

2) The god of the gaps fallacy
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

From rational wiki: God of the gaps (or a divine fallacy) is a logical fallacy that occurs when believers invoke Goddidit (or a variant) in order to account for some natural phenomena that science cannot (at the time of the argument) explain. This concept resembles what systems theorists[1] refer to as an "explanatory principle".[2] "God of the gaps" is a bad argument not only on logical grounds, but on empirical grounds: there is a long history of "gaps" being filled and the remaining gaps for God thus getting smaller and smaller, suggesting "we don't know yet" as an alternative that works better in practice; naturalistic explanations for still-mysterious phenomena always remain possible, especially in the future where research may uncover more information.[3]
In the end the atheist claims about death are simply a gap and they are quick to fill it with nothing. That nothing happens after death.

So back to my quote.

If you were born inside a locked room and given food and water and air and whatever to survive through a hole then it is possible you might never wonder what is outside the room. That room just happens to be he universe and death is the border to what might be beyond.

Responses please :)
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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POI
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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #11

Post by POI »

Wootah wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:39 pm If you were born inside a locked room and given food and water and air and whatever to survive through a hole then it is possible you might never wonder what is outside the room. That room just happens to be he universe and death is the border to what might be beyond.

Responses please :)
So your claim is that something must exist outside the 'universe', and this existence must be God?

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #12

Post by Athetotheist »

While indeed a fallacy, the God of the Gaps argument has an equally fallacious counterpart: Appeal to the Future, a materialistic assumption that every unknown will eventually be understood.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:38 pm While indeed a fallacy, the God of the Gaps argument has an equally fallacious counterpart: Appeal to the Future, a materialistic assumption that every unknown will eventually be understood.
Boy, I've been around a bit, but have never heard of such an appeal. Care to cite an example or two from the internet?

Thanks.



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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #14

Post by otseng »

Please edit the OP and add a debate question.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #15

Post by Athetotheist »

Miles wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:01 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:38 pm While indeed a fallacy, the God of the Gaps argument has an equally fallacious counterpart: Appeal to the Future, a materialistic assumption that every unknown will eventually be understood.
Boy, I've been around a bit, but have never heard of such an appeal. Care to cite an example or two from the internet?

Thanks.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Escape_to_the_future

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:20 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:01 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:38 pm While indeed a fallacy, the God of the Gaps argument has an equally fallacious counterpart: Appeal to the Future, a materialistic assumption that every unknown will eventually be understood.
Boy, I've been around a bit, but have never heard of such an appeal. Care to cite an example or two from the internet?

Thanks.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Escape_to_the_future
From your link

"Form
P1: Currently, there is no evidence that X is true.
P2: In the future, there will be evidence that X is true.
C: X is true
."

While I recognize the fallacy based on P2: "in the future there will be evidence that X is true" it's quite another to contend the P2 of the fallacy says "in the future there will be evidence every X is true."

Not that this makes it any less fallacious, but just that it's a different argument.


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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #17

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:38 pm While indeed a fallacy, the God of the Gaps argument has an equally fallacious counterpart: Appeal to the Future, a materialistic assumption that every unknown will eventually be understood.
What's an appeal to a magic thing up in the sky that knows every "unknown"?

Religion?
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #18

Post by JoeyKnothead »

POI wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:00 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:39 pm If you were born inside a locked room and given food and water and air and whatever to survive through a hole then it is possible you might never wonder what is outside the room. That room just happens to be he universe and death is the border to what might be beyond.

Responses please :)
So your claim is that something must exist outside the 'universe', and this existence must be God?
Don't ya see, man, you're locked into your prison thinking. All them years of cups abanging against the bars have rattled your brain loose, man.

He's up there, just as sure as the govner's gonna grant my parden, and then I'll be rid of you sinners, you backsliders, you heathens and oafs. Shed of ya, I say!

Dontcha see, man, God can't cotton to your kind, you prisoners. He's scared ya'll'll make a run on his house, usurp his authority.

Open your eyes, man, get out of your prisoner ways, and get on the righteous path of holy betternuism. Stay away from the free thinkers and the scientists, and the homos, man. Ya know, they's prisoners, too! Locked in their lust for one another. Their glistening, sweaty bodies rubbing against each other in their sinful passion. Their lips, quivering with the heat of a hundred suns, touching, no, pressing firmly, and with unbridled desire, to their lover's lips. Their arms wrapped

Hey, wait a minute :shock:
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #19

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:13 am [Replying to Miles in post #2]
You should be able to reply to the thread and dismiss it rationally, logically, easily and thoroughly I am sure.
Cool!

Put up a rational and logical thread, and let's set in on one another!
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

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Re: God of the gaps for atheists

Post #20

Post by Wootah »

POI wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:00 pm
Wootah wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:39 pm If you were born inside a locked room and given food and water and air and whatever to survive through a hole then it is possible you might never wonder what is outside the room. That room just happens to be he universe and death is the border to what might be beyond.

Responses please :)
So your claim is that something must exist outside the 'universe', and this existence must be God?
Well, I wouldn't stretch the specific thread that far but it all extrapolates to that for sure.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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