Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

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Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Hi all,

This is a thread to discuss the Christianity & Apologetics Forum

In the rules on this forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9741

Point 2 seems to clash with the general purpose of this forum.
2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true. However, using the Bible as the only source to argue what is authentic Christianity is legitimate.
clashes with
This sub-forum is intended as a meeting ground for any and all theistic positions – none of which are given preferential treatment. It is a very “level playing field�. Any story, statement or claim of knowledge which is challenged is required to be substantiated with evidence to show that it is true and accurate. “The Bible (or Quran or Bhagavad Gita) says so� is NOT acceptable as proof of truth.

If you disagree with the Guidelines and/or cannot debate without attempting to use the Bible to prove a point or position true, kindly do not debate in this sub-forum. Instead, use Theology, Doctrine and Dogma OR Holy Huddle sub-forums in which the Bible IS regarded as authoritative and can be used as proof of truth.
What is the subforum for and why are posts on Christianity & Apologetics being moved out of the forum?
I've made two posts now that are intended to debate what is authentic Christianity and so assumed the Bible can be used as a source but been moderated down to the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma forum.

Even the little note for each forum is contradictory (when you view all the forums lists).
Christianity and Apologetics (Argue for and against Christianity)
Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma (Exploring the details of Christianity)

I feel I am not allowed to argue for Christianity in this forum and at the very least not understanding point 2.

Thoughts:

The core problem is that the Christianity and Apologetics forum is to my mind the main forum of the website and is for debating Christianity and Apologetics and debate is not possible. Any general visitor would assume that debating Christianity would be allowed in that forum.

* Can we possibly rename the forum to something other than Christianity and Apologetics? There is no way anyone is going to understand that they can't debate Christianity in that forum and new visitors potentially getting moderated so quickly can only detract from the website. I am not sure what a good name would be.

* I'd appreciate understanding what this point 2 means, please? As we might be aware there is a large JW population on the website and so the argument for what is authentic Christianity seems valid to me.

* I would also appeal to allowing Christian debate topics on the main forum of the website to attract more visitors to the site. Perhaps the two forums can be switched around in order?

* Perhaps merge the forums and allow the users to tag whether the Bible is to be considered authoritative or not, or state in their debate question what they think the presuppositions of the debate should be?

* Moderating Christian posts so quickly might not be good as well (minor point in context).

In the end, the different subforums serve to guide the type of questions. If the subforum is on Star Wars then don't post about Star Trek is how I see it and I feel as if I am on a Harry Potter website right now where I am not allowed to post about Harry Potter in the Harry Potter forum.

I like the idea of a forum where the Bible isn't considered authoritative, defeating opponents without even needing the Bible actually strengthens the belief in God, and maybe I need to be more gracious and see this forum as the opportunity for atheists to learn more about God through debate when they don't know the Bible, but it is still confusing to move on-point debate topics off the main forum of the website.

(That last underlined thought almost has me argue myself out of this post.)

Question: Should posts that are on the topic of Christianity & Apologetics be moved off the main forum of the website? (added via edit)
Last edited by Wootah on Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #31

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:21 pm The basic answer back to my thread here is: C&A can't change the rules mostly because then it would be hell for the atheist.
Christians say the darndest things :facepalm:

If asking for confirmatory data outside the book making the claims is such "hell" for the atheist, imagine the torment it causes the claimant who can't do any better'n "But it says so right here in my Big Book of Magic!"
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #32

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #30]

Joey, we agree on why you like the current setup. I said that earlier in this thread.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #33

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #31]

Joey - you are fighting hard for no change to the forum called Christianity & Apologetics.

That is the essence of separating heaven and hell and why hell must exist btw because we practice heaven and hell ourselves. You are arguing for separation.

It would be hell for you for the rules to be changed apparently for simple Christian posts in C&A.

Can you see that irony?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #34

Post by Bust Nak »

Wootah wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:21 pm The basic answer back to my thread here is: C&A can't change the rules mostly because then it would be hell for the atheist.
That analogy is missing the rather important factor of omnipotence.
what that doesn't make sense to moderate that kind of post in this kind of website and subforum (which is the main forum of the website).
Which part doesn't make sense exactly? When I hear Christianity & Apologetics, I think cosmological argument, ontological arguments, prime mover and so on. None of that require taking the Bible as authoritative.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #35

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #34]

I'm not asking for the Bible to be authoritative. All this thread is about is me mentioning that it is passing strange that quite simple Christian apologetic posts were moved off a forum that goes by that name. And the opportunity to chat about that fact. You do agree that it is odd a bit at least?

https://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quot ... ng-strange
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #36

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:43 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #31]
Joey - you are fighting hard for no change to the forum called Christianity & Apologetics.
If I was "fighting hard" otseng and the mods be spanking me with every post. Otseng & The Mods. That'll be the name of my bluegrass Beatles cover band!
That is the essence of separating heaven and hell and why hell must exist btw because we practice heaven and hell ourselves. You are arguing for separation.
As the concept of Hell is so tied to religious belief, I reject the claim I'm practicing Hell as a bit offensive.

Your theology is negatively impacting your ability to present an argument I might find convincing.
It would be hell for you for the rules to be changed apparently for simple Christian posts in C&A.
Considering their profound inability to put truth to their claims, I find all Christian posts "simple".

"Simple" in that they "simply" can't be shown to be truth.
Can you see that irony?
I see someone seeking to lower the standards of debate because they can't compete.

I don't try to get TD&D to accept scientifically sound data and arguments from a variety of biblically disassociated sources specifically because C&A allows such.

I propose if your apologetic arguments could live up to that standard, we'd not be having this conversation.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #37

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 am [Replying to Bust Nak in post #34]

I'm not asking for the Bible to be authoritative. All this thread is about is me mentioning that it is passing strange that quite simple Christian apologetic posts were moved off a forum that goes by that name. And the opportunity to chat about that fact. You do agree that it is odd a bit at least?

https://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quot ... ng-strange
I'm no mod of course, so there's that.

I think maybe you're accustomed to treating the bible as fact, and kinda now can't understand why in debate, we should consider ALL sources suspect. If I refer folks to the most authoritative, scientific resource, it should still stand to scrutiny.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #38

Post by Bust Nak »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 am I'm not asking for the Bible to be authoritative. All this thread is about is me mentioning that it is passing strange that quite simple Christian apologetic posts were moved off a forum that goes by that name. And the opportunity to chat about that fact. You do agree that it is odd a bit at least?

https://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quot ... ng-strange
Neither of the two example threads looks to be arguments for the truth of Christianity. Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma is the right forum for them. I don't agree it's odd.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #39

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #38]

So you read this thread, you realised I wasn't focussed on my specific posts, you realised we aren't focusing on what the rules say, you just stepped back and allowed yourself to think, "Yes that is normal that Christian apologetics posts should be moved off the Christian Apologetics forum."?

Honestly, that is all that prompted this discussion.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #40

Post by benchwarmer »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:32 pm [Replying to Bust Nak in post #38]

So you read this thread, you realised I wasn't focussed on my specific posts, you realised we aren't focusing on what the rules say, you just stepped back and allowed yourself to think, "Yes that is normal that Christian apologetics posts should be moved off the Christian Apologetics forum."?

Honestly, that is all that prompted this discussion.
Can't speak to what Bust Nak is thinking, but I have yet to see an APOLOGETICS post moved off the Apologetics forum. I saw what appeared to me (and the moderators) as 2 theology posts moved off the apologetics forum onto the theology forum.

It sounds like we are now in a very roundabout way debating what constitutes apologetics?

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