Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

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Wootah
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Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Hi all,

This is a thread to discuss the Christianity & Apologetics Forum

In the rules on this forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9741

Point 2 seems to clash with the general purpose of this forum.
2. Avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true. However, using the Bible as the only source to argue what is authentic Christianity is legitimate.
clashes with
This sub-forum is intended as a meeting ground for any and all theistic positions – none of which are given preferential treatment. It is a very “level playing field�. Any story, statement or claim of knowledge which is challenged is required to be substantiated with evidence to show that it is true and accurate. “The Bible (or Quran or Bhagavad Gita) says so� is NOT acceptable as proof of truth.

If you disagree with the Guidelines and/or cannot debate without attempting to use the Bible to prove a point or position true, kindly do not debate in this sub-forum. Instead, use Theology, Doctrine and Dogma OR Holy Huddle sub-forums in which the Bible IS regarded as authoritative and can be used as proof of truth.
What is the subforum for and why are posts on Christianity & Apologetics being moved out of the forum?
I've made two posts now that are intended to debate what is authentic Christianity and so assumed the Bible can be used as a source but been moderated down to the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma forum.

Even the little note for each forum is contradictory (when you view all the forums lists).
Christianity and Apologetics (Argue for and against Christianity)
Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma (Exploring the details of Christianity)

I feel I am not allowed to argue for Christianity in this forum and at the very least not understanding point 2.

Thoughts:

The core problem is that the Christianity and Apologetics forum is to my mind the main forum of the website and is for debating Christianity and Apologetics and debate is not possible. Any general visitor would assume that debating Christianity would be allowed in that forum.

* Can we possibly rename the forum to something other than Christianity and Apologetics? There is no way anyone is going to understand that they can't debate Christianity in that forum and new visitors potentially getting moderated so quickly can only detract from the website. I am not sure what a good name would be.

* I'd appreciate understanding what this point 2 means, please? As we might be aware there is a large JW population on the website and so the argument for what is authentic Christianity seems valid to me.

* I would also appeal to allowing Christian debate topics on the main forum of the website to attract more visitors to the site. Perhaps the two forums can be switched around in order?

* Perhaps merge the forums and allow the users to tag whether the Bible is to be considered authoritative or not, or state in their debate question what they think the presuppositions of the debate should be?

* Moderating Christian posts so quickly might not be good as well (minor point in context).

In the end, the different subforums serve to guide the type of questions. If the subforum is on Star Wars then don't post about Star Trek is how I see it and I feel as if I am on a Harry Potter website right now where I am not allowed to post about Harry Potter in the Harry Potter forum.

I like the idea of a forum where the Bible isn't considered authoritative, defeating opponents without even needing the Bible actually strengthens the belief in God, and maybe I need to be more gracious and see this forum as the opportunity for atheists to learn more about God through debate when they don't know the Bible, but it is still confusing to move on-point debate topics off the main forum of the website.

(That last underlined thought almost has me argue myself out of this post.)

Question: Should posts that are on the topic of Christianity & Apologetics be moved off the main forum of the website? (added via edit)
Last edited by Wootah on Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #41

Post by Wootah »

benchwarmer wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:05 pm It sounds like we are now in a very roundabout way debating what constitutes apologetics?
I think we are on the same page at last.

Christian Apologetics is where Christians make arguments that discuss/defend/support their beliefs.

Harry Potter Apologetics is where Harry Potter fans make arguments that discuss/defend/support their beliefs.

The forum rules are strangely not supporting this simple understanding of the words.

If someone likes or doesn't like an argument is up to them really. I don't participate in Harry Potter forums because I don't care for the books.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #42

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:52 pm ...
Christian Apologetics is where Christians make arguments that discuss/defend/support their beliefs.
The problem here is that when a Christian makes a claim regarding their beliefs...

"Jesus".

When challenged...

"The bible".

Effectively ends the debate. Unless we can expect some extra-biblical confirmatory data, that ain't hardly a debate at all.
Harry Potter Apologetics is where Harry Potter fans make arguments that discuss/defend/support their beliefs.
Random Ramblings would be happy to house all your Harry Potter apologetics.
The forum rules are strangely not supporting this simple understanding of the words.
Have ya thought maybe it's you with the simple understanding, and maybe C&A represents a more complex idea than, "The bible says it, so boy howdy"?
If someone likes or doesn't like an argument is up to them really. I don't participate in Harry Potter forums because I don't care for the books.
C&A is a place to get at the truth of Christian claims, not so much the proselytizing thereof. With that in mind, as with sound examination and analysis, a broad spectrum of diverse, divergent, and even biblical data must be brought to the table.

"I believe Jesus is God" is a topic of belief, yes. But it's also several unproven claims...

1. There's this Jesus feller.
2. There's this God feller.
3. Jesus suffers multiple personality disorder.

In arguing the veracity, the wisdom, the underlying truth of that belief, we must be allowed to approach that belief, and its enclosed claims, free of the burdens of theology.

Just saying, "But, but, but the bible" is an unreliable means of finding fact, truth, or sound reasoning.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #43

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #42]

If it is not for C&A then what should we rename C&A to so as to make it better align with your desire for that forum?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #44

Post by Bust Nak »

Wootah wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:32 pm So you read this thread, you realised I wasn't focussed on my specific posts, you realised we aren't focusing on what the rules say, you just stepped back and allowed yourself to think, "Yes that is normal that Christian apologetics posts should be moved off the Christian Apologetics forum."?
How about I make it explicit and say, it would be odd if Christian apologetics posts are moved off the Christian Apologetics forum. It's normal that Christian theology posts are moved to the theology forum.

Now it's a question of the distinction between apologetics and theology.
Christian Apologetics is where Christians make arguments that discuss/defend/support their beliefs.
The forum rules do not supporting this simple understanding of the words because discussing/defending/supporting ones beliefs can be theology too.

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #45

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:14 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #42]

If it is not for C&A then what should we rename C&A to so as to make it better align with your desire for that forum?
So I guess then that whole "simple" thing sailed by like a leaf fluttering in the wind, just out of reach.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #46

Post by Wootah »

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #47

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:13 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #45]
No comprehende.
From Post 42:
Wootah wrote: The forum rules are strangely not supporting this simple understanding of the words.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Have ya thought maybe it's you with the simple understanding, and maybe C&A represents a more complex idea than, "The bible says it, so boy howdy"?
Where you see C&A through the lens of religious / Christian beliefs, others see it through the lens of "can we dig us up a bone of truth in amongst all this?"

I'm all for the idea that in C&A the theist should be able to discuss / debate their beliefs. No problem. The problem comes when in defending those beliefs, all the theist does is point to the bible and say, "See."

So please, by all means, present your beliefs for debate, but expect em to be held to a higher standard than what you may be expecting from your fellow Christian apologists.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #48

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #47]

I really don't understand why you are being this way but whatever. I know where you stand emotionally.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #49

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #47]
I really don't understand why you are being this way but whatever.
I argue in good faith, as open and honest as I know how, so that whole "whatever" business is a bit disappointing to see. I consider your concerns valid, if errant in terms of site regs. Surely you could give me the same respect.
I know where you stand emotionally.
It's an intellectual issue for me, not an emotional issue.

Here's another opportunity for ya to look in a mirror.

You've said this issue was, or that defining "C&A" , is "simple", though the data scattered throughout the thread shows it clearly ain't so simple. Now you declare I've taken up this discussion based on my emotions, and I can only assert that ain't the case.

Look in the mirror.

Nobody's to trying to restrict your ability to spread your words and ideas. It's just that your words and ideas can be categorized to fit into various subforooms herewithin. The mods have to make judgement calls based on their understanding of site rules and regs. They do so in as honest and sincere way as they know how.


You're one of the smartn's Wootah, trust that you'll be able to put that big brain of yours on it, and figure how to best take advantage of the rules, rather than just dwell on the disadvantages.
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Re: Christianity & Apologetics Forum - what is it for?

Post #50

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to Wootah in post #48]

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Please review the Rules.


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