Divine Hiddenness

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Mattman
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Divine Hiddenness

Post #1

Post by Mattman »

I love discussing/debating arguments related to God's existence and Christianity, and I have a voice chat group I'm putting together to do that. Send me a PM if you're interested in participating or listening in.

Below is a brief summarized version of an argument. I'd love to hear your thoughts!
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Thesis: The Argument from Divine Hiddenness is not sound.

Dr. Shellenberg says that any perfectly loving being would make sure that every creature *willing* to be in a life-giving reciprocal relationship with him would be *able* to be. Nonetheless, there appear to be people who, though they would be happy to be in a relationship with God, find themselves unable to believe that God exists. Dr. Shellenberg refers to this experience as reasonable nonbelief, and we can express his argument this way:

1. If there is a God, he is perfectly loving.

2. If a perfectly loving God exists, reasonable nonbelief does not occur.

3. Reasonable nonbelief occurs.

4. Therefore, no perfectly loving God exists.

5. Therefore, there is no God.

_____
From here on out, I'll refer to the argument above as "DH." I'll present what I take to be the strongest objection.

First, consider that the nontheist supports premise three by appealing to testimony. People report having experiences of reasonable nonbelief, and the nontheist maintains that this testimony has evidentiary value.

Next, notice that if God does not exist, then people cannot have authentic experiences of God. The nontheist isn't committed to any particular account for why people report such incidents, but he does seem committed to the view that such people aren't authentically experiencing God. If DH is sound, then the nontheist must reject the testimony of Christians who report firsthand experiences of God. By logical equivalence, if the nontheist accepts Christians' testimony, he must deny DH.

In short, DH shows that the testimony of firsthand experiences of God conflicts with the testimony of reasonable nonbelief. How are we to decide which testimony to accept? There are vastly more believers than nonbelievers. If, as the nontheist must insist, the testimony of this sort has evidentiary value, then the believers' testimony has more evidentiary value than the nonbelievers' in virtue of the larger number of witnesses.

To illustrate, imagine that you are a journalist in New York and you've just seen a parade go past. Suppose you interview six people: five report having seen a float pass with Santa Clause on top and the sixth reports having seen no float at all despite being in front where he'd have been able to see it. What would you conclude had happened? You can't accept all of their testimony since their testimony conflicts. It seems you would be within your rights to take the testimony of the five who saw the float and disregard the testimony of the one who didn't. At a minimum, it would be reasonable to withhold judgment and remain agnostic about whether or not the float passed.

In the same way, it seems you would be within your rights to accept the testimony of Christians and reject the testimony of nonbelievers. At a minimum, it would be reasonable to withhold judgment about whether people experience either God or reasonable nonbelief. If, however, we remain agnostic about the occurrence of reasonable nonbelief, then DH fails.

There is a way out of this problem such that the nonbeliever need not disregard anyone's testimony. Namely, he can accept premise three and reject premise 2. Even so, DH remains unsound.

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Sources:

Jones, Michael. “Divine Hiddenness: A Christian Response.” YouTube, uploaded by Inspiring Philosophy, 8 Feb. 2019, https://youtu.be/3YvXeLtdVBE, accessed 22 Feb. 2022.

Meister, Chad. Evil and the Hiddenness of God. God and Evil: The Case for God in a World Filled with Pain. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2013.

Speak, Daniel. The Problem of Evil. Cambridge: Polity Press, 2015.
Last edited by Mattman on Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seir1997
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Re: Divine Hiddenness

Post #31

Post by Seir1997 »

Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the son of God who died on the cross for our sins. He rose again three days later and ascended into heaven where he sits at the right hand of God. His return is imminent.

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William
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Re: Divine Hiddenness

Post #32

Post by William »

Seir1997 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:34 am Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the son of God who died on the cross for our sins. He rose again three days later and ascended into heaven where he sits at the right hand of God.
In the now, he remains hidden...
His return is imminent.
Throughout the age of Christianity, this return has been imminent.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[SOURCE]

Seir1997
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Re: Divine Hiddenness

Post #33

Post by Seir1997 »

by John Calvin
John Calvin (1509-1564) was a French theologian, author, preacher, pastor, lawyer, and philosopher. He wrote the seminal treatise Institutes of the Christian Religion. His work is considered to have laid the foundation of the Protestant Reformation.

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