Our Queen's Christian Faith

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Rose2020
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Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

I find our Queen Elizabeth ll to be a most inspiring figure of Christian faith and values.
Would anyone disagree that her faith is very real and that she lives it so well?

Every Christmas in her broadcast she includes the name of Jesus Christ openly and speaks of her faith powerfully simply.

This despite the other religions and the numbers of unbelievers in the UK. She stands up for Christ because this is first and foremost a Christian nation - though one may not think so at times. We are fortunate to have such a strong Christian as our head. For our beloved Queen accepts openly that Christ is her leader.

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #11

Post by nobspeople »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:43 pm Well, the Bible must be read in the right spirit, in fact it is essential to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding. We cannot do it ourselves.
Our God and His Son Jesus Christ stand for love and righteous justice. That is what the Bible, being the directly given word of God, means to me.
Without that, life loses all meaning and purpose.
I wouldn't call drowning an entire planet love, myself.
I wonder how many are 'in the spirit' and read the same text but not agree on it?
Seems the holy spirit is more concerned with confusion than understanding.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #12

Post by otseng »

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #13

Post by Tcg »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:43 pm Well, the Bible must be read in the right spirit, in fact it is essential to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding. We cannot do it ourselves.
Our God and His Son Jesus Christ stand for love and righteous justice. That is what the Bible, being the directly given word of God, means to me.
Without that, life loses all meaning and purpose.
My life has plenty of meaning and purpose and none of it has anything to do with either God or Jesus or any other gods for that matter.


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #14

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #10]

So, one has to be in the right 'spirit' to know that, as Tcg said: "Stoning of adulterers or men who engage in gay sex. Abandoning family to follow Jesus. Praying rather than administering medical aid. Stoning witches and wizards. Owning slaves as inheritable property. Teaching six-day creationism. Snake handling. Stoning women determined not to be virgins on their wedding night."
isn't right?
Or in the spirit, you then know it IS right?

This whole 'in the spirit you will understand the bible' thing is bogus as far as I can tell (having been 'in the spirit' for decades).
Why?
If the bible is a means to understand god, how can they be 'in the spirit' if they don't know anything about said spirit when they first read the bible? In other words, no one is 'in the spirit' when they first read the bible.
Might as well say 'you have to know what sweet tastes like before you taste sweet'. Basically, this is an excuse to justify ancient man's appalling treatment of others that don't assimilate to the writer's ideals, to make the 'holy book' correct and 'god inspired', while making god 'good, perfect and just'.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #15

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:17 am Well, our entire UK legal, health and education systems are built upon strong Christian values.

Not as history tells it. English law is seen as a legacy of Norman law. Norman law referring to:

"the customary law of the Duchy of Normandy which developed between the 10th and 13th centuries and which survives today in the legal systems of Jersey and the other Channel Islands. It grew out of a mingling of Frankish customs and Viking ones after the creation of Normandy as a Norse colony under French rule in 911."
source: Wikipedia

Moreover:

English Law
Early development

In 1276, the concept of "time immemorial" often applied in common law was defined as being any time before 6 July 1189 (i.e. before Richard I's accession to the English throne).

Since 1189, English law has been a common law, not a civil law system; in other words, no comprehensive codification of the law has taken place and judicial precedents are binding as opposed to persuasive. This may be a legacy of the Norman conquest of England, when a number of legal concepts and institutions from Norman law were introduced to England. In the early centuries of English common law, the justices and judges were responsible for adapting the system of writs to meet everyday needs, applying a mixture of precedent and common sense to build up a body of internally consistent law. An example is the Law Merchant derived from the "Pie-Powder" Courts, named from a corruption of the French pieds-poudrés ("dusty feet") implying ad hoc marketplace courts.

Following Montesquieu's theory of the "separation of powers", only Parliament has the power to legislate; but if a statute is ambiguous, then the courts have exclusive power to decide its true meaning, using the principles of statutory interpretation. Since the courts have no authority to legislate, the "legal fiction" is that they "declare" (rather than "create") the common law. The House of Lords took this "declaratory power" a stage further in DPP v Shaw, where, in creating the new crime of "conspiracy to corrupt public morals", Viscount Simonds claimed the court had a "residual power to protect the moral welfare of the state". As Parliament became ever more established and influential, Parliamentary legislation gradually overtook judicial law-making such that today's judges are able to innovate only in certain very narrowly defined areas.
Source: Wikipedia

Set up by Christians.
Set up by Christians almost goes without saying, just as the system of laws, gardening practices, and animal husbandry in the USA, Australia, New Zealand, etc. were established by Christians, the predominant religion in these regions at the time. However, this does not mean the system in the UK was "built upon strong Christian values." No doubt it was influenced, in part, by some Christian values, but more importantly, by the secular thinking of the time. In particular, Norman legal concepts. That this secular thinking occasionally had something in common with some of the morals in the Bible is quite likely, but more often than not the system was constructed around the secular exigencies of the time, guided by Norman influences, which initially came from the "mingling of Frankish and Viking customs." :mrgreen:



As for the health system, exactly what kind Christian values do you see as having spawned the health system in the UK? I ask because . . .

"During Victorian era (1837 - 1901), hospitals were founded and funded by the middle and upper classes to serve the medical welfare needs of the working-class population. Higher income individuals sought private health care. Due to the fear of abusing the system, the hospital began to assess patients. If they were too well off they were either told to find private care or make a donation to the hospital. Instead of financial clerks, the lady almoners were tasked with the job to screen patients.

With payment systems developing, hospitals taking on private services, and doctors using public hospitals to build credentials and open private practices, some hospital fees became beyond reach for working-class patients. There were two schemes that provided alternative payment for this population:

1. Compulsory insurance scheme for certain workers that covered local doctors but not hospital treatment. Also, it did not cover family members.
2. Membership to community-owned mutual aid funds and medical clubs. This gave members access to a doctor, medicine, and some hospital treatment.

The end of World War II created opportunities for new reforms in health care. According to History Extra, the BBC World Histories Magazine, the National Health Service (NHS) was launched in July 1948 to provide health care that was free at the point of delivery. Before the establishment of this formal health system, health care relied heavily on lady almoners. They were around 1,000 women in hospitals across the country that worked medical charity, public and private health care, and mangaged the bounardy by interviewing patients and deciding an appropriate rate for service.
source


Note, Nary a murmur of any religion's strong values being part of the NHS's history.


The UK Educational system
While education was initially carried out in schools tied to churches, this was done simply because there was no other game in town. So, while "strong Christian values" were no doubt part of what was being taught, I fail to see what unique role they played in creating the educational system. However, if you feel the UK educational system was due to "strong Christian values" I'd be delighted to hear just what you believe these unique values to be.


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Last edited by Miles on Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:43 pm Well, the Bible must be read in the right spirit, in fact it is essential to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding. We cannot do it ourselves.
Our God and His Son Jesus Christ stand for love and righteous justice.
And exactly how just is it to order practicing male homosexuals killed? And how loving is Ezekiel 25:17?

Ezekiel 25:17
"And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall lay My vengeance upon them."


Nah, your god has just too much pent-up hate in him to "stand for love."


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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #17

Post by Overcomer »

I am Canadian and the Queen has been part of my whole life. I have tremendous respect for her. She has one of the most thankless positions a person could ever have -- demanding, all-encompassing, exhausting. She has been on display all the time, having to keep her own counsel even in the presence of difficult and sometimes objectionable and patience-trying people.

I wish she could write her memoirs because she has seen so much in this world and experienced all manner of things and met so many different people and travelled all over the place. Think of the stories she can tell!

I expect she really misses Prince Philip as he was the one person in the world she could just be herself with. She could confide in him like no other once her sister and her mother were gone.

And yes, she always points us to Christ in so many of her messages. It would not surprise me that she has drawn on the Lord's strength many many times throughout her long life. So I agree with you in this matter, Rose. Thanks for drawing attention to her and her spiritual side.

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Re: Our Queen's Christian Faith

Post #18

Post by Diagoras »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:43 pm Well, the Bible must be read in the right spirit, in fact it is essential to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding. We cannot do it ourselves.
Sounds rather circular to me.

How does one know that it's "essential to pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding"? Who - without having read or been told about the Bible - would know to do that?

Our God and His Son Jesus Christ stand for love and righteous justice. That is what the Bible, being the directly given word of God, means to me.
What it means to you, by your prior claim, is immaterial unless you have received understanding from the Holy Spirit after praying to it. You should perhaps explain the difference between this process and that of someone merely thinking they understand how to read the Bible in 'the right spirit'.

Without that, life loses all meaning and purpose.
Always good to have a personal philosophy. I would argue that there are in fact many ways to find meaning and purpose in your life.

If you feel that you are being best guided by reading the Bible, then you'll likely attain a strong score in this online test. Out of thirty questions, it identified a couple of 'tensions' in my personal beliefs where I had to "be flexible" in order to hold apparently contradictory views simultaneously. For my particular demographic though, this was slightly less than half the amount of tension seen on average.

Some of the other tests are worth exploring as well, but I encourage you to try the one I linked to first. It's not hard, and it's designed to be fair to people of all beliefs.

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