"I wonder why folk have to argue and cannot get along and just see how we all need to work together to make this planet wholesome?"
{Pokes at the fire with staff}
"We humans are like these sparks reaching for the heavenly ones. We need some kind of poke to get us activated."
{A wolf howls in the distance}
"We are all here experiencing this planet in this universe. Yet for reasons not entirely clear, we are distracted by our arguments. Hindered by them, even to the death."
{Places another branch on the fire.}
"Perhaps the fear of our situation would be too much to bear if we learned how to focus upon it, and so we distract ourselves..."
Last edited by William on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Callum's response puzzles me. He tells me that he agrees that if The First Source knew the eventual outcome was going to be alright, then The First Source would embark on the experience of not knowing anything, assured of the eventual outcome...
...but then he asks "why?", as if somehow, it is something one can make a judgement on, perhaps because he thinks it is simply wrong for The First Source to have made such a choice.
The Ruru: For The Best Results
The Ruru is always so spot on with her evaluations. The First Source was looking for results. There was a purpose. This was explained to Callum but he appears to have completely missed it.
The Ruru: The Beauty Of Imagination Smiley face Ghost In The Machine.
I remember the words of the song. Perhaps it is time to sing to Callum once more. The Ghost In The Machine is intimately related to Dreams of a Fallen Angel.
The Ruru: Universal Intelligence Communication Device Magic Those who need to complain Honest Few The Metaphysical Universe Coherence
It is obviously in line with providence...
This is the nature of the unfolding story - those who are not honest with their lives tend to complain more often than not, and this has its effect when they continue their journey of experience into the next realm...The Children are by and large separate from The Mother, than The Mother is from her Children...
The Ruru: The evolution of the understanding of the idea of GOD
I look down at the bundle of envelopes tied with Silver Cord...intuitively I decide it is time to open up one of the envelopes so I reach for them and carefully untie the binding.
Choosing the top envelope, I break the seal and open it.
Inside I discover a letter some kind - Just the one page...
Reading through the letter, the words give me more insight into how strange my creators world is...
_______________________________________________
William: All your particular belief system does is state that we are all 'Satan' as we all exist on this planet Earth.
One True Scotsman: I accept that Satan is a real singular person. I call people like him Satanic or demonic.
William: You call people 'evil incarnate'. There is therefore no difference.
One True Scotsman: If it is true that people only die for their sins, how is it victim blaming to say they earned their death?
William: People die from the effects of the universe. From what you say of your belief system, they are sinful before they - not of their own free will - incarnate here.
One True Scotsman: Good rant by the way, no hostility at all, appreciate that.
William: It was not a rant. It was a rebuke against a moronic, hostile belief system designed for predatory use and upheld and administered by narcissistic tendencies.
I don't believe that Belief System.
As with all rebuke, there is an element of hostility - naturally enough, and indeed in this case, well enough deserved. The hostility is against the Belief System itself, so please don't take that personally.
In actuality your and my positions are similar to a certain degree, but veer off from each other in relation to how we each define our understanding of GOD.
For example, I think the universe is a prison/holding cell for the wayward aspects of GOD-Consciousness to experience, which affords the opportunity for the individuate particles of said consciousness to rehabilitate, and that this is a step - one of many, toward that ultimate reality.
Our differences are in how we understand the GOD aspect. Yours hides away, ducks and dives when cross- examined, separates itself from its creation, won't accept responsibility for evil, doesn't consider its own actions to being evil simply because it is 'GOD' even that its actions have been the same as those of evil humans...the list goes on.
Mine allows for all the time in the universe for the wayward aspects of Itself to, one by one, reintegrate back into the wholeness through processes designed ultimately for the rehabilitation of those particles of consciousness, does not give up on those parts of Itself which through their ignorance and gullibility have one way or another stumbled upon dark areas to investigate and experience which will ultimately allow for them to understand themselves in relation to wholeness as particles of GOD Consciousness.
No other consciousness exists separate from this - which is another difference of understanding which you and I have - and eventually ignorance and gullibility will cease to be the barrier and oppressive/suppressing instrument that it presently is and historically has been.
Consciousness is eternally GOD and cannot be destroyed thus transformation is the only alternative in relation to the wayward, however long that might take to accomplish.
_______________________________________________
The Ruru: Wide A Place To Create Art On The Other Hand One Language Intelligent Network Truth Glad You Asked "Do You Know This?"
Transparent Positive Feedback
I am again reminded of WingMakers...I wonder how such a system as OLIN would help free the creators from their prison systems...when so many do not even realize they exist within a prison...
The Ruru: Exploring Message
I gaze down at the words on the page I hold before me...The Language is harsh - an obvious conversation recorded between two Creators who seem to have similar understanding of a pre-existence, but differ widely in relation to their fundamental idea of GOD.
Obviously Wiremu is the "William" in the narration. He has rebuked the other for putting a shadow on the nature of GOD...perhaps this is an old record, because Wiremu appears to be very judgmental in his expression - not the person I know him to be...
The Ruru: Please - Re Abusive Expression Of All Types. - You Have An Invisible Friend!
Indeed! I had forgotten my fireside guest in my internalizing. I turn in Callum's direction...wondering what more I can say...I decide to ask him a question...
Manu Iti: So my friend...If you were the only Being in existence, and had always ever existed and were all knowing - and all powerful and could create, what would you do?
Perhaps in the knowing, the creating happens spontaneously - to merely think something is to have it come into existence...If you knew that despite the hardship and pain and feelings of separateness, the Children you bore from that, and who also suffered through that, would all eventually come into the fullness of knowledge as individuate representatives of your journey into ignorance, would you not also do the same?
For, is that not The Mothers Purpose? To bear Children out of Love and Gift them with the Life that You Are?
I cannot think of anything more to add which might help Callum understand this idea...then I remember the Ghost song...
Manu Iti: Perhaps while you think on what I have asked you, I might sing another song?
Manu Iti takes awhile to answer, deep in thought, even reading some kind of note. He seems a bit bothered by my questions, but is trying to exhibit patience with me. He then asks me what I would do if I were the only Being in existence. To give me time to ponder, he offers to sing another song. Remembering the beauty of the last one, I respond...
Manu Iti: Alright then! This song is called "Ghost In The Machine" and is about The Mother Earth in particular...
[center][font=Comic Sans MS]GHOST IN THE MACHINE
You’ve been a rock - For so long now
I can’t even count the years that you’ve been rolling
Nothing can shock or bring you down
There ain’t nothing you haven’t seen - Nothing you haven’t known
You can teach me when I’m Needing
You can reach for me when I’m bleeding
Touch me where I need it most...
You are the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a thought worth thinking
You’re the water and the wine - you’re the cup from which I’m drinking
You’re a surprise worth hoping for
You are a captured moment - you’re a space without a time
You can look me in the mirror
Catch my eye and make me shiver
Touch me where it hurts the most
Right into the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a dream gone real
You’ve got exactly what it takes to make an old wound heal
You tied the knot - then you let it slip
Now we both know what it feels like to find a place to fit
We can chart another trail
Raise the anchor fill the sails
Lift our glasses in a toast
We are the Ghost - In the Machine
We’ve been an island of our own
We’ve been a cosmic rolling stone
Now’s the time to spread our wings
And fly! [/font][/center]
As I hold the note and lift it with the last word, Alpha Wolf Entity arises from his slumber and begins to howl along with me and our voices mingle together...then, as the sound echos into the valley below, another wolf in the near distance returns the howl, and he quickly nudges me farewell, and heads away from the campsite at a swift pace...
Manu Iti sings, the wolf beside Manu Iti sings along and then moves towards a howl in the distance. I watch the wolf race into the dark and then further hear a few sounds of hoof breaking twigs when I can no longer see it. I wait another minute or so, letting silence remain between Manu Iti and myself.
Callum: What you have asked me rests on the judgment that The Mother is singular, which is unlike the Christian conception of God The Tanager has provided me with. The Tanager tells me that this conception is not of his design, so it exists in his and Wiremu's world as well. But let us assume that your judgment is correct, that GOD is not multi-personal.
I have a quick thought of possible confusion at calling God multi-personal, but I'm sure Manu Iti will not confuse that for saying God has multiple personality disorder, so I continue...
Callum: If The Mother exists, then it seems to me that either (a) The Mother is against separation and harm and, therefore, she would not want to experience those things or (b) it sees no problem with separation and harm and, therefore, there is no progress in moving from separation and harm to unity and love. So, why the push back to unity? You speak as though our movement back to The Mother is progress. But if it is no better than separation and harm, movement back is not progress and should not necessarily be desired by all.
I haven't directly answered Manu Iti's question, though, so I try to wrap it back up with my direct response, as I watch a many-legged bug starting to crawl off my shoe towards Manu Iti.
Callum: But to your question, I would not purposefully seek separation and harm. I don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself. That seems downright illogical. Even in our world, we seek the things we see as good. If we seek what is good and we view separation and harm as not good, then we would not seek that.
As I listen to Callum, it becomes even more apparent to me that he conflates judgmentalism with discernment.
Manu Iti: Being discerning is simply accepting what is, without judgement. That was what I was trying to convey to you with my songs.
Also, in my story of the anti-theist. He had judged the idea of GOD as evil and his verdict was to hate GOD.
If he had simply accepted that the particular idea of GOD appeared to be evil and discerned that it was likely dressed up that way by those who had an agenda to push that particular idea of GOD, he could have avoided his hateful verdict and the consequences of that.
The Ruru: Wiremu said one time:
“In thinking more about that truly unknown thing called the sub or unconscious aspect of ourselves, I found myself thinking that we are to it, what our shadow is to us.�
Manu Iti: Wiremu said one time:
“In thinking more about that truly unknown thing called the sub or unconscious aspect of ourselves, I found myself thinking that we are to it, what our shadow is to us.�
In that, Wiremu is using discernment without judgement.
So I suppose the best way to understand the difference is to ask oneself if one has placed a verdict on that which is being examined. If not, then one has discerned.
IF so, then one has judged.
The Ruru: The Truth is irresistible once realized
Manu Iti: It is exceptionally easy to make judgement-based decisions in Wiremu's and Tanager's Universe.
It is not so easy to accomplish in this one.
That is what I have discerned as one of the major differences between the two realms...and why Wiremu was specific in his designing of this realm...
The Ruru: Duality. Neruda Interview Five
“The WingMakers referred to the triad of consciousness as having the god consciousness installed within it—in the unconscious mind layer, but they also report that as the individual develops from about the age of six or seven, they begin to assemble their individual personality from the elements of the subconscious layer and by the time they’re 12 to 14 years old, they have their unique personality well in place, and for some, this uniqueness is shutting out the existence of a God.
From Anu’s perspective, this is fine. He probably likes having atheists and agnostics. It’s more separation. More diversity. In fact, the greater the diversity in the human family, the greater the separation. The greater the separation, the easier it is to keep the program of enslavement intact. Choose sides and disagree with your opponents. Compete. It fuels wars and social unrest."
Do It For Yourself Eggs In Nests
Manu Iti: We could discern that the choice of names our creators gave us, was significant as coincidence. Serendipity. Divinely inspired even.
Others might judge it as co-conspiracy...something Wiremu and Tanager cooked up together to make it appear that way.
So perhaps in all this dear Callum, we can agree together that discernment is necessary, but judgement is not and the essential ingredient which makes a difference is in ascertaining whether a verdict has been reached and expressed as such.
A cloud passes over the crescent moon...it gives an impression of what I think judgmentalism does to separate and diffuse the light of rationality.
Manu Iti: Take your concerns about The Mother...are they echoing and reflecting back something real or simply something you have added to, or subtracted from?
I cannot yet discern, for I do not understand how you have reached this conclusion, from what I have spoken...
The Ruru: Be Aware. Behind The Scenery Unknown Symbol Lost In The Thought Of It All
Manu Iti: As to my question that "If you were the only Being in existence, and had always ever existed and were all knowing - and all powerful and could create, what would you do?"
Your answer that you would not purposefully seek separation and harm, because you don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself, appears to be a verdict.
The Ruru:
“In thinking more about that truly unknown thing called the sub or unconscious aspect of ourselves, I found myself thinking that we are to it, what our shadow is to us.�
Perfect Magicians...Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system
Manu Iti: In relation your apparent verdict, you have had to place aside the relevant information given to you about the situation before the creation of the simulation which provided the all-knowing with the experience of total ignorance.
As well as that, you have also neglected the information regarding the assured outcome prior to the act, in which the fragmented aspects of The Mother are seen to all eventually reform...with the added bonus of Off-Spring...
So your apparent verdict is based upon discarding information in which to reach said verdict, thus your verdict is incorrect because of that.
Effectively then, you are arguing against a different idea than the one which was presented to you, and in that - apparently find no logic - which isn't surprising, as it wasn't the idea I had presented anyway.
To my right I see two trees of identical height and appearance. They even seem to switch relative positions to each other, so that I can't tell which is to the right and which is to the left. The only difference I see is that the long one has a helmet resting at its base, the short a small bird in one of its boughs.
Callum: Do you (or, at least, Wiremu) not reach a verdict when you consider the assured outcome of the act of creation? This betrays a judgment that being all-knowing is a better state than total or partial ignorance. That is what makes the simulation worth it, you surmise. My judgment directly concerns this belief, rather than ignore it. Your view paints the Mother as someone who lives a life that she deems is less good. If separation has redeeming qualities, then why seek to leave it? If the unity of the Mother is better, than why leave it in the first place? Who chooses what is bad for them?
You then say off-spring is added. What is this off-spring? Are they one with the Mother at the end of the simulation? Or are they separate but in a relationship?
What other relevant information have I placed aside to reach my verdict? Speak it clearly back to our remembrance for my creator tells me he is unaware of what you are referring to, my friend.
Callum appears to be admitting that he is being judgmental by declaring plainly that he is indeed expressing from a verdict he has made about The Mother and her motives.
I feel a sadness for him, and think that if his creator would not keep things from him, it might help...
The Ruru: What’s The Problem?
Manu Iti: I think the problem with the verdict is the judgement regarding the assured outcome of the act of the creation, with the addition of off-spring.
It appears to me Callum, that you are judging that action and you have also stated that both I and Wiremu are judging that action as well, when you have been informed already that we accept it - and the acceptance has to do with the understanding of Love. It is Love which was the motivation for the creation...due to what the outcome revealed. The Mother births her children through the act of that creation and so She not only regains her Wholeness as an outcome, but in addition, gains the off-spring.
I cannot fathom how anyone can judge an action based in Love as being something anyone can judge as bad.
The Ruru: Overwhelming
Manu Iti: The off-spring are a relevant consideration, Callum.
The Ruru: A Page Of Dreams
A Page Of Dreams
Part One:
I went down to the waters edge
I looked at my reflection
I saw clouds of wings and other things
Offering protection
I couldn't stand I couldn't sit so all I did was lie
I knew I wouldn't make it - If I didn't even try
Shakily I floated up through ceiling and through roof
I floated under night sky stars bright with their own truth
Upwards - backwards floated I away from my safe haven
I wasn't dead I was alive - between the earth and heaven
I was really trying hard not to fear this great unknown
I was thanking Father God for what I was being shown
Next thing that I knew I was back in my own room
Dreaming I was trailing an Alien through the gloom
I followed her through jail cells and strangers everywhere
Lost sight of her a while then caught her on the stare
I chased her into the warehouse where everyone gets a bargain
And lost her in the blow up toys in the girls and boys department
I awoke and I remembered all of this experience
I shared it with a group of very insincere sinceriants
They gathered daily in my office on the computer screen
They tried to place a wedge between me and my dream
Well it's all good hey knock on wood and tell me if you care
To let me know if you're as shy as shy as you appear
Sister can you tell me what is is that holds your heart?
Mother Earth the goddess birthed - I loved her from the start
Messages in symbols languages of light
Put your finger on the glass everything's alright
Trust yourself to trust yourself to trust yourself with others
The sky-gods call and earth responds Always are they lovers
Manu Iti: The Ruru speaks to me of an experience Wiremu had once...
Wiremu would like me to tell you that although you do not hear The Ruru, he knows that The Tanager can read the words The Ruru speaks.
He wants me to explain the process involved in giving The Ruru its 'voice.'
The Ruru: Adds Up To Decisive
The Main Points On The Agenda Brave Change
Manu Iti: I realize that you won't understand the significance of what I am about to say, but it is really for The Tanagers sake that I do so - in the hope that he will see some significance in it, and perhaps from that, gift you with the ability to hear The Ruru.
The Ruru: Love Your Life. Enjoyable Learning Experiences.
Manu Iti: Wiremu has a document which is a list he uses...
I reach down for the bundle of envelops at my side, and once again untie the Silver Chord that binds them, and selecting the top one, I open it and find a photo example of part of a page from Wiremu's document...
The Ruru: What The Gods See...
Manu Iti: Wiremu's document currently contains 43 pages of data which are lines of different expressions and other things...this is a picture of a part of one of those pages as an example...
I place the picture on the small table which sits between us, allowing him the opportunity to look at it if he wishes to.
The Ruru: Source Sync What Fun We Have!
Manu Iti: Wiremu wants to convey that he adds things to the document list regularly. He say's that he randomly uses a pointer...called a 'cursor' and simply moves this by using a 'pg up' or 'pg dn' button on his keyboard, as well as random taps with up and down keys.
He does that without looking at the computer screen. He then selects the line where the cursor stops, ...in the case of the image, the cursor has stopped at the words "Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution ". Each selection then becomes part of the stringed message being communicated...
Thus, with Wiremu's help I am able to immediately comprehend what The Ruru is speaking about - roughly 80% of the time, and most of the rest is usually deciphered in hindsight.
In relation to the casual observer, such as The Tanager, the coherency percentage would be a lot lower, but nonetheless Wiremu feels that there is enough comprehensible data being conveyed through the process in relation to it's use interspersed in our conversation as it is - for the process to be of some interest to the casual observer.
I hear the owl say "What's the Problem?" Such a feat no longer startles me like it would have when I first met Manu Iti or any time before then...if there was any time before then for me. Then a scene happens by the two identical trees, one short and the other long. The helmet laying at the foot of the long tree seems to be vibrating. It rises in the air and moves toward the bird in the short tree, causing the bird to move to another branch. The helmet then returns to its position. The bird looks back at the previous branch, but remains in the branch it now sits. Manu Iti then goes on to speak, interspersed with the speech of the owl. The bird in the tree now opens its beak.
The bird: Acceptance is an act of judgment, just as much as rejection is.
It then turns its head sideways as it hops further down the branch.
The bird: Or to look at it another way, every acceptance is also a rejection.
Callum: Do you accept what the bird says, my friend? Or do you reject it?
I point to the two trees to my right. I'm not sure if Wiremu is allowing Manu Iti to see the same thing. Perhaps he will make them look different to my friend. The Tanager tells me that perhaps Wiremu does not see them in the same way, either.
Callum: The Tanager tells me that one of the things those two trees symbolize are you and I. You name a thing Love; I name it otherwise. Both of us put a name to it, however. I want to know why you judge its name to be Love. One possible reason lies in my question which you did not answer, at least not clearly. This question concerns the relationship between off-spring and Mother once her Wholeness is restored. Do the off-spring remain or is it just The Mother at that point?
A bird has made a statement about Acceptance being an act of judgement and Callum has asked me if I accept the statement.
It seems peculiar to me, since I have already made myself clear that The Mother and Her decision to create something in which She could explore total ignorance is that which I accept...where is the judgement in that?
The Ruru: Show Your Soul - You Have An Invisible Friend!
Manu Iti: Given the topic of The Mothers Creation Callum, I do not understand the birds statements relationship with that, nor your question regarding it.
The Ruru: The Elder Race Glow Softly Functional Cluster
Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results. Imaginative Realities We Groove Together
Manu Iti: As to your symbolism with the trees and these supposedly representing our differences in what we understand Love to being, your claim that you do not see love in The Act of Creation, is not for me to attack.
So whatever it is you see The Creation as, which is not Love, is not under attack from me anyway.
I do not judge the Act of The Creation as motivated by Love, I accept it as motivated by Love, through the device of discernment.
It would pay for you to keep in mind that I mean what I say, and do not conflate discernment with judgmentalism, and would rather that you refrain from attempting to place words in my mouth and motivations in my heart.
If you cannot accept the word of my position on this matter, how are we to progress?
The Ruru: Enough To Make Me Wonder...
Manu Iti: As to your question re the off-spring... "Do They Remain?" I did answer your question. You are placing that information aside.
I will repeat the information;
"The Mother births her children through the act of that creation and so She not only regains her Wholeness as an outcome, but in addition, gains the off-spring. "
The Ruru: Find/Discover To Experience All That Is
Biological Evolution is a platform in which - intelligence can and does display itself Working With What Is Available...
The cloud-cover dissipates and once more the reflective light of the Moon shines in. I think about Callum's two trees, and how they both contribute to the making of a forest.
The cloud-cover is thick above me. Manu Iti says he has already answered my question regarding the offspring. He repeats his answer. It is as unclear as when he first stated those words. It is frustrating when you tell someone that what they said isn't clear and then they simply repeat themselves implying it should be clear and you've just ignored it. It comes across as mistrustful of one's motives or condescending. It does not come across in a loving way. I hope it does not come out of those motivations and I give the benefit of the doubt. Even if Manu Iti thinks I'm being disingenuous or am thick, I still want to know my new friend, and I would still continue.
Callum: One thing that remains confusing is why you seem to say rejecting your claims as true...what I have done...is a judgment, but accepting them as true...what you have done...is not a judgment. You seem to be playing with words and holding a double standard. I must be missing something. Can you clear that up for me, my friend?
And my thought then goes to the off-spring.
Callum: Another thing that remains confusing is that you speak of The Mother regaining Wholeness, a wholeness that was fractured into the offspring, if I understood you correctly. If so, how can the offspring remain while that Wholeness is restored? These have to be two different kinds of Wholeness being talked about or I'm misunderstanding what's going on regardless of what you've already said on the subject.
The cloud-cover dissipates and once more the reflective light of the Moon shines in. The scenery to my left starts to come back. I see one tree standing alone. Then various trees pop into existence around it, creating a grove. I then focus on one of those trees. A small squirrel runs up to it with a small rectangular shape in its mouth. It stops in front of this tree, places the box down then twitches its tail. It takes a few steps back, produces a device from its bushy tail, then presses the top of it. An explosion rocks the tree, shattering it into various pieces, which splinter all throughout the forest. The bird to my right is pierced by one of the shards and drops to the ground.
Time passes, I'm not sure how long. It seems both long and like it has passed within a few seconds. The pieces of the exploded tree, some have planted and started growing their own trees, some remain shards, but they start to come back towards their origin. The one that pierced the tiny bird drags the bird's carcass back with it. The tree reforms before my eyes, with the bird trapped within its trunk, it's beak sticking slightly out, but no movement.
Callum: I understand you to say that The Mother existed alone and then decides to create. There would be various options for The Mother at this point. One, The Mother becomes many and it remains this way for as long as existence remains. Two, The Mother creates other conscious beings, out of nothing, as it were. Three, The Mother becomes many which then, eventually, become One again. Maybe others. I'm not really sure where your view falls, Manu Iti, but I would guess the first one since you say she gains the offspring and say nothing of her losing them.
I see the second option as loving and the first as not loving, when considering that it would include to a world like ours' or our creators', at least how The Tanager's experience reveals to me it is. Is this me accepting something? Am I making a judgment?
Now, why do I think such things? In the first and third options, I discern that pure knowledge and love chooses to experience separation and harm for itself (or, if you want, for others who used to be itself), yet pure knowledge and love, I discern, would not be able to choose ignorance and hate, by definition. Love chooses good things.
I discern, from how you've described The Mother, that The Mother sees separation and harm as bad because you have said it will only go through that experience because of the Wholeness that will return. The Mother sees progress in returning to Wholeness and will only undertake the experiment because of that goodness being assured.
In the second option, I discern that the creation of free, separate beings is a great good. Love can choose that. Yet, in that choice, logically, there is the possibility of those beings choosing separation and harm for themselves and those around them. This does not change that the initial choice is Love.
[/center]
