Musing On The Mother - Act I

Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.

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Musing On The Mother - Act I

Post #1

Post by William »

[center]Image[/center]

{Thinking to myself}

"I wonder why folk have to argue and cannot get along and just see how we all need to work together to make this planet wholesome?"

{Pokes at the fire with staff}

"We humans are like these sparks reaching for the heavenly ones. We need some kind of poke to get us activated."

{A wolf howls in the distance}


"We are all here experiencing this planet in this universe. Yet for reasons not entirely clear, we are distracted by our arguments. Hindered by them, even to the death."

{Places another branch on the fire.}

"Perhaps the fear of our situation would be too much to bear if we learned how to focus upon it, and so we distract ourselves..."
Last edited by William on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post #81

Post by William »

As I listen to Callums words in reply to my own, I am reminded of the obvious. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

I think he may have forgotten the original premise. First Source - The Mother - was all that existed. Therefore everything must have come from Her.

Callum remarked on the trees manifesting from apparently nothing, here in this Universe. That is the nature of this Universe, but this Universe is no more a separate thing from The Mother than are Wiremu and The Tanagers Universe. Indeed, there are no such things as Universes separate from The Mother...

...I sip my tea as I ponder on a reply...perhaps if I just speak my thoughts...but then again, that is what I have been doing...


The Ruru: Love - Communicate Love

Manu Iti: Well Callum - as I previously explained to you a little bit...this place you find yourself within is The Hub of The Hologram Universes.
The nature of this place responds to the individuals beliefs and this is why, although you think you see me - as you have described me - you yourself manifest what I look like for your own perceptions.
The same can be said of the trees you conjure...it is literally you who are doing this.
I myself see none of those things that you create although Wiremu tells me that he knows you are doing so - I myself can choose to see your creations, but then again, all I really would be doing is creating my own in relation to what you might describe...or I can simply leave it be and see nothing of what you create...I know when you do it because there is a kind of blurring or fuzziness in certain areas of this clearing, which tells me that you are creating things...it is the nature of this Universe - one can instantly manifest whatever one wants to...


The Ruru: Stop. Listen. Observe. In Training For…

Manu Iti: As I spoke of this place, it is what Wiremu has created and expects to come to when he has completed his sentence in the current Universe he is incarcerated within. This is his training ground. Because he believes that the Metaphysical Universe is experienced by the individual and responds accordingly to the individuals beliefs and attitudes...just like in the story I told you of the non-theist who's chutes did not open...whereas in Wiremu and The Tanagers Universe, while things are manifested through the same beliefs and attitudes, those things have to be built from the ground up.
Where here, if I wanted to fly out to the moon there - I would just think to do so, and that is what would immediately happen...but in Wiremu's Universe, the ground has to be mined and a great deal of thought and effort and creativity from many individuals combined, are the only way anyone there could fly to the moon.

It is all based upon the same principle, but at far different rates of manifestation...I realize that I am perhaps being rather wordy when all my main point to this explaining is to try and convey that there is no Universe which isn't inside The Mothers Mind, even that they vibrate at differing frequencies...so we are still left with the problem which naturally arises when we learn to believe that some things are created from material outside of The Mothers Mind...because there is no such place...


The Ruru: It Will Prove Itself True Or False. Love Your Life.

Manu Iti: This is why I have asked you to tell me why you think it is logical that any place exists outside of The Mother...how do you explain this idea in logical terms?

The Ruru: Well...Maybe I Am...Ride Electrics...

Manu Iti: Certainly it is something of a roller-coaster ride my dear friend, but the good and the evil are relative and even occasionally confused with each other...non-judgmentalism and forgiveness puts an end to that...which are what the songs I sung to you are about....

I finish the rest of my brew and decide that I could do with another...the cool breeze seems to have dropped away slightly...

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Post #82

Post by The Tanager »

The night is getting more chilly and, so, I rub my arms a little while listening to Manu Iti's reply.

Callum: There are two possibilities that begin with The Mother being all that existed. Yes, whatever else happens is due to Her action because there can be no other logical source. But that does not mean that it is of one ontological nature with Her, unless you can show that creation from nothing is logically impossible. I explained why I don't think it is. Do you have a counter argument? Yes, it all came because of Her Mind, but that does not mean that Her ontological nature (spirit, whatever you want to call Her "material") becomes it all.

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Post #83

Post by William »

Callums reply gives the appearance that he is avoiding having to explain the logic of his understanding...he claims to have explained the logic and now wants a counter argument.

Manu Iti: Dear Callum. I have been asking you to explain why you think it is logical for you to believe what you do. Perhaps you should do so...or, if indeed I have somehow missed this explanation, please forgive me as I ask for it once more.

I am getting the impression that you have relaxed your stance on my own position as you appear to now admit that all things have to - most logically - be sourced in only The One.

Perhaps in that, we can move forward?

Is it that your problem has to do with the existence of harm and separation and therefore there is a requirement to separate the Creator from Her Creation?

If we can agree that the ultimate destination of this particular string event is the sole reason The Mother embarked upon this journey, then we can also agree that the separation and subsequent harm is not caused by The Mother - for Her motives are pure - but rather are caused by the resistance to that destination...regardless of whether the resistance is purposeful or ignorant, conscious or unconscious.

Thus, as long as the resistance remains, the harm and feelings of separation remain. The cause of the resistance is not The Mother, even that She instigated the whole process.

Bear in mind that the process was understood by The Mother and undertaken based upon understanding that knowledge, that all would eventually be integrated in Unity and Wholeness and the end of harm and separation established.

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Post #84

Post by The Tanager »

The night sky seems to be growing brighter, as I realize we must be reaching closer to the morning. Time passes by when in good conversation with a kind soul. I note three things I want to address from Manu Iti's comments. First, whether I am changing my position. Second, the logic of my belief that "creation from nothing" is not illogical. Third, the responsibility of The Mother in causing harm.

Callum: It may appear that I am relaxing my position, but that would be an illusion. You have simply spurned me to better translate my view into the terms you use, just as you have better translated your view into terms I understand at times. I never thought that The Mother was not the source of the existence of all things. I have only said that I do not think The Mother is of the same ontological nature as Her Offspring. It's the difference between Aristotle's material and efficient causes. I think The Mother is the efficient cause, but that there is no material cause. You, it seems to me, think The Mother to be both types.

I hear the bird chirping once again from the midst of the tree that splintered and recollected itself with the bird trapped inside. It is a bit muffled.

Callum: Back to my logic. A married bachelor is an illogical concept because to be a bachelor is to be unmarried. One cannot, logically, be an unmarried married person. The very terms used directly contradict in how they are defined.

I do not see the same kind of thing happening with "creation from nothing." The terms "creation" and "from nothing" do not directly contradict each other. If they don't, then the phrase formed by these two terms is not an illogical concept, whether it is true or not. Creation is not properly defined as "changing what is already there." If it was, then we'd have an illogical phrase when trying to say "creation from nothing."


I see the bird's beak peck through the wood behind Manu Iti. It then appears into view and then disappears again as it is probably trying to make sense of what has happened to it.

Callum: As to your view of The Mother, the separation(s) is still confusing me. You say that, in the end, there is Mother and Offspring...which denotes a separation of some kind. Yet you also say that The Mother only creates because of the promise of the end of separation.

I lied, there is a fourth thing.

Callum: Aside from that. If separation is bad (and The Mother seems to view it as bad from what you have said) and The Mother causes separation by her creation of Offspring from Herself, then why is The Mother not to blame?

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Post #85

Post by William »

After hearing Callum's answer I understand that we are worlds apart in how we interpret things...he has now branched away from the main tree, so there is where we must go....fortunately I am up for it, as for some reason I really enjoy climbing among the trees.

The Ruru: Intuitive Intelligence

Manu Iti: Yes indeed Callum! I see your point. I think we might call the branch we are upon and examining..."Nothing".
Let us see if we can reach a consensus as to what 'Nothing' actually is.

Since you brought the idea of nothing into our conversation, perhaps you can share with me what you think nothing is...
Then I will do likewise....agreed?


I look out into the roof of the night sky and it is if I am gazing into the eyes of my Beloved. How my stars Shine!


The Ruru: Technique of Exchange Getting Over It = Getting On With It

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Post #86

Post by The Tanager »

As Manu is talking, the bird finally pushes its way out of the tree trunk. I'm glad she isn't dead. I watch her as Manu Iti finishes talking. It sits upon its former branch and cocks her head at me and then gives a lovely, cheerful chirp. Manu Iti wants to focus in on a discussion of "nothing". I hope that this does not mean we will not circle back to separation, but knowing Manu Iti, I trust we will find our way back there.

Callum: An excellent idea. To me, nothing is not a "thing," but the absence of things. In the context of creation, creation from nothing refers to the existence of something new that was not there before in another form. I'm not saying that there was complete nothingness, because The Mother was there. I'm saying that the new something was not a change of The Mother's form.

Analogically, I'm not saying there was magic with no magician. The magician is needed for magic to occur.

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Post #87

Post by William »

Manu Iti: If we are to refer to your idea of 'nothing' as 'the absence of things', then do these things which are absent, still exist as 'things' or do they not exist at all?

Whichever, it appears that 'the absence of things' would have to mean that The Mother is not aware of said things, as they are absent from Her awareness.

That being the case, the original premise would have to change regarding The Mothers Knowledge of everything.

Indeed, your explaining 'nothing' as 'the absence of things' does not show any logic and requires more work in that department. As presented, it appears to be something which is conjured up in order to try and appear to make your position in relation to The Creator being separate from Her Creation, tenable.


Just then I hear a whinny, and turning toward the sound, I smile at the beautiful sight before me.

Manu Iti: If one were to claim that "Pink Unicorns" are absent from one's awareness, therefore they do not exist - can the statement be said to be logical and true?
In relation to that, as I mentioned, can anything which does not exist, and then is created to exist, be said to have come from 'nowhere' and 'nothing' and by that, not exist in the awareness of The Omniscience?

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Post #88

Post by The Tanager »

I hear a whinny, but I don't see what the animal looks like. I gather from Manu Iti that he might see a pink unicorn or perhaps it is just a horse and his mind wandered from there. I think of times riding through open fields, wind racing around me, as Misty revels in her own speed. I wonder how long I've kept Manu Iti waiting for my answer, perhaps I was lost in that memory for some time.

Callum: Good clarification. Yes, nothing is not being absent from a specific location, like when I used to play hooky from school and they would mark me absent, but being absent of existence. If a pink unicorn does not objectively exist (if it has absence of that kind), then The Mother has no knowledge of it because there is nothing to have knowledge of.

Well, what about the concept of a pink unicorn? Yes, The Mother has knowledge of that concept. But that concept is different from an objectively existing pink unicorn. A concept of something is different than the actual thing. The Mother is aware of "pink unicorn" and that there is nothing objectively existing in reality that reflects her concept in reality.

Creation from nothing can account for the move from conceptual existence to objective existence. One is based on the other, but they are not the same thing. Do you see these as the same thing? If The Mother conceives of something, it exists?

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Post #89

Post by William »

The Unicorn comes up behind me at a quiet walk and nudges me on the back. She wants to take me for a ride. I reach behind and scratch her on the chin groove and she gives out a gentle nicker.

The Ruru: Unicus.

Unicus is a god among Unicorns. She is shiny black with markings which look like star-fields. I would love no better thing right now than to take her up on her offer.
I speak quietly;


Manu Iti: Good to see you again, Beautiful Soul...

The Ruru: A Sturdy Place Technique of Exchange Fear Of The Unknown Thing Informing

Callum has asked a question which goes to the heart of the subject.

Manu Iti: It is more along the lines that if The Mother conceives of something, then it has always existed, just as She has always existed.

The Ruru: Duel - You Have That Gleam In Your Eye

Manu Iti: Essentially She gives immediate birth to what is conceived.
But what is conceived, has never not existed.


The Ruru: What Is Friendship? Old Google

I chuckle at The Ruru's comment about The Mother. She is connected with all of Creation...things known, and things still to be discovered by Her off-spring.

The Ruru: On To It Inter-Dependent

Manu Iti: This is the idea I was expressing to you earlier on Callum. The Mother knows all that is, about all that is and "nothing' simply does not exist in relation to that.

The Ruru: Observing Without Judgement

Manu Iti: When she conceived of what it would be like to know nothing, instead of everything, She created the means in which to explore the idea and there is no difference between The Mothers Thought and The Mothers Action, and the materialization of thought into actuality is the very same thing. They are not separate things.

The Ruru: Something like that...

I reach for another envelope from the bundle and upon opening it, I find this interesting picture....

Image

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Post #90

Post by The Tanager »

The Ruru speaks of a gleam in Manu Iti's eye. I can see it, too.

Callum: The relationship between divine concept and objective actualization may be an important difference of our beliefs. One thought races back towards freedom. If one must actualize all they conceive, there is a lack of freedom, at least in one sense. In my view, there is still that freedom because The Mother knows more concepts than She freely chooses to actualize. On your view, it seems that The Mother does not choose to create because She sees a good outcome; for as soon as She thinks of separation, it must come regardless of the outcome.

But even assuming your view on the relationship is correct, there is still a creation from nothing. There is an absence of those things that will come into existence until The Mother thinks of them. But, ultimately, this brings my thought back to the problem of evil. If what you say is true, then it seems that The Mother is responsible for any evil and harm, is She not? Evil things are so because she has thought of them. Whereas, if there is a distinction between knowing a concept and actualizing such a thing, then the responsibility lay with the actualizer, which need not be The Mother.


I pause and think back upon my own existence in this world. Is that an eye I see in the cloud above? Is that The Tanager's eye? I then turn to the bird upon the short tree. It has caught a worm and flown back up, apparently giving it to some other creature, but I'm not sure what.

Callum: This is why I said earlier that our existence has no value for us if we are not free beings. Our world is completely controlled by our creators. I can do nothing, unless The Tanager makes it so. What you see as me, is a full reflection of Him. I am not separate from Him.

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