Participants in the Threads are entitled to help create the environment of this "Around The Camp Fire" sub-forum.
I, as moderator, am interested in helping to build an environment that all participants are comfortable with, bearing in mind that the rules of this sub-forum are the cornerstones from which such foundation will be built, and as such - are the overall guide for all participants to follow.
The use of PMing for the purpose this thread is created to do, is discouraged.
The moderator wishes the Readers to have access to data of process which PMing would otherwise hide from them.
Any comments and questions related to post in this thread, should also be answered in this thread, rather than in the role-play threads.
Sharing In The Building
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William
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Sharing In The Building
Post #1
Last edited by William on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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William
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Post #11
The reason for my creating this sub-forum was to do with my observation that in the debate setting judgmentalism is fairly rampant and as such, does more harm that good.
That in itself might be regarded as a critique, with addition of pro-active response in relation to the critique...the action being, the creation of the Around The Campfire sub-forum.
Because my characters thoughts can be read by you, this informs you that - speaking through my character - I am indirectly giving you a heads up, in order that you do not use your character to make judgements, because it is against the rules of the sub-forum.
However, this is a new and - in my opinion - a very good thing happening, for many reasons ...some of which you and I might well agree on.
In that, I have to allow for the learning curve where I feel that the boundaries are being pushed by you through your character.
So I - through my character - remain tolerant and hopeful that you, through your character, can find the way in which to continue the discussion without use of judgmentalism in order to see where this might eventually lead us to, in regard to the description below.
If you feel that this is not something you want to continue with, then we can terminate the role-play...although that would seem a drastic measure to take at this time, you might agree?
I think we are making exceptional progress, especially in relation to how things normally go regarding interaction between the Members of this Message Board as we are moving forward, rather than in circles.
Perhaps something for you to think about is to make Callum more and more aware of your presence as his creator.
Perhaps too, we can take some time out of the role-play to discuss what we are each learning about the interaction so far?
That in itself might be regarded as a critique, with addition of pro-active response in relation to the critique...the action being, the creation of the Around The Campfire sub-forum.
Because my characters thoughts can be read by you, this informs you that - speaking through my character - I am indirectly giving you a heads up, in order that you do not use your character to make judgements, because it is against the rules of the sub-forum.
However, this is a new and - in my opinion - a very good thing happening, for many reasons ...some of which you and I might well agree on.
In that, I have to allow for the learning curve where I feel that the boundaries are being pushed by you through your character.
So I - through my character - remain tolerant and hopeful that you, through your character, can find the way in which to continue the discussion without use of judgmentalism in order to see where this might eventually lead us to, in regard to the description below.
- Hi
I thought it would be interesting to start a group for the purpose of role-playing as genuine individuals interested in discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.
I have named the group;
Around The Camp Fire
I seek to attract individual personalities who are happy to oblige in expressions of non-judgmental and unconditional loving attitudes.
@
If you feel that this is not something you want to continue with, then we can terminate the role-play...although that would seem a drastic measure to take at this time, you might agree?
I think we are making exceptional progress, especially in relation to how things normally go regarding interaction between the Members of this Message Board as we are moving forward, rather than in circles.
Perhaps something for you to think about is to make Callum more and more aware of your presence as his creator.
Perhaps too, we can take some time out of the role-play to discuss what we are each learning about the interaction so far?
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The Tanager
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Post #12
To share my thoughts, it seems like you are wanting this to be a place where we cannot share why we disagree with what is being shared by the other. You seem to be calling that disagreement "being judgmental." I think disagreement is a good thing, if done respectfully (which I think I'm doing here) that can lead to greater understandings and nuances. But, I want to honor your rules. If I understand that correctly, to be honest, I probably will not be on this sub-forum much in the future. This is not because I don't want to have a greater understanding of your view, but because I DO want a greater understanding of your view, and I believe that is accomplished through sharing where we disagree...what you seem to be calling "being judgmental." I think unconditional loving involves discernment and sharing what we think is untrue, if we share why we think it untrue, in caring ways.
If I understand things correctly, then I will finish out this story with Callum, moving towards your desire for no judgment to be shared...I won't just cut him off because I believe there is some merit in just learning what others believe at the surface, non-judgmental level. I have been enjoying this. I would love to continue it. I do think we will miss out on something with no disagreements and reasons shared, but will honor your opinion otherwise. I want to be upfront with you, so that you don't feel I'm trying some kind of bait and switch manuever. What are you thoughts?
If I understand things correctly, then I will finish out this story with Callum, moving towards your desire for no judgment to be shared...I won't just cut him off because I believe there is some merit in just learning what others believe at the surface, non-judgmental level. I have been enjoying this. I would love to continue it. I do think we will miss out on something with no disagreements and reasons shared, but will honor your opinion otherwise. I want to be upfront with you, so that you don't feel I'm trying some kind of bait and switch manuever. What are you thoughts?
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William
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Post #13
The Tanager: To share my thoughts, it seems like you are wanting this to be a place where we cannot share why we disagree with what is being shared by the other.
William: If your thoughts are non-judgmental and come from that place, then you should be able to express your disagreement from a position of non- judgmentalism.
If you feel you are unable to do this, then there is nothing more we can do here.
This is why I created the;
[center]
Sharing In The Building
A place to interact in matters of good concern[/center]
in order to discourage interaction which is otherwise hidden from the reader.
William: If your thoughts are non-judgmental and come from that place, then you should be able to express your disagreement from a position of non- judgmentalism.
If you feel you are unable to do this, then there is nothing more we can do here.
This is why I created the;
[center]
Sharing In The Building
A place to interact in matters of good concern[/center]
in order to discourage interaction which is otherwise hidden from the reader.
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The Tanager
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Post #14
But what you see as "non-judgmental" versus "judgmental" is still a bit unclear to me.
If I have Callum say something like:
If The Mother exists, then it seems to me that either The Mother is against separation and harm and she would not want to experience those things or she sees no problem with separation and harm and then, there is no progress in moving from separation and harm to unity and love. So, why the push back to unity? You speak as though our movement back to The Mother is progress. But if it is no better than separation and harm, movement back is not progress and should not necessarily be desired by all.
and
Back to your question, I would not purposefully seek separation and harm for myself. I don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself, all other things being equal. That seems downright illogical. Even in our world, we seek the things we see as good.
Is that being judgmental or not, in your use of that term?
That is what I PM'd William, but I would also add that, definitionally, I don't see how one can share a disagreement without judging the thing disagreed with as being wrong.
If I have Callum say something like:
If The Mother exists, then it seems to me that either The Mother is against separation and harm and she would not want to experience those things or she sees no problem with separation and harm and then, there is no progress in moving from separation and harm to unity and love. So, why the push back to unity? You speak as though our movement back to The Mother is progress. But if it is no better than separation and harm, movement back is not progress and should not necessarily be desired by all.
and
Back to your question, I would not purposefully seek separation and harm for myself. I don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself, all other things being equal. That seems downright illogical. Even in our world, we seek the things we see as good.
Is that being judgmental or not, in your use of that term?
That is what I PM'd William, but I would also add that, definitionally, I don't see how one can share a disagreement without judging the thing disagreed with as being wrong.
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William
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Post #15
The Tanager: If I have Callum say something like:
If The Mother exists, then it seems to me that either The Mother is against separation and harm and she would not want to experience those things or she sees no problem with separation and harm and then, there is no progress in moving from separation and harm to unity and love. So, why the push back to unity? You speak as though our movement back to The Mother is progress. But if it is no better than separation and harm, movement back is not progress and should not necessarily be desired by all.
and
Back to your question, I would not purposefully seek separation and harm for myself. I don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself, all other things being equal. That seems downright illogical. Even in our world, we seek the things we see as good.
William: If you read through the narration you will find that you have already used Callum to express those concerns and I have used Manu Iti to answer those concerns already.
The Tanager: Is that being judgmental or not, in your use of that term?
William: If one is unable to accept the others explanation, it may well be because one is stymied by judgmentalism...
The Tanager: I would also add that, definitionally, I don't see how one can share a disagreement without judging the thing disagreed with as being wrong.
William: If one can show the other why it is incorrect, then that is part of the process of discussion. Be aware that issues of right and wrong stem from a judgmental personality and thus the logic might be incorrect in the first place. If you choose to argue through your character Callum, that it seems illogical, then it would pay to explain why Callum thinks this is the case, and give opportunity for Manu Iti to respond.
And then address what Manu Iti has said in his answer.
If The Mother exists, then it seems to me that either The Mother is against separation and harm and she would not want to experience those things or she sees no problem with separation and harm and then, there is no progress in moving from separation and harm to unity and love. So, why the push back to unity? You speak as though our movement back to The Mother is progress. But if it is no better than separation and harm, movement back is not progress and should not necessarily be desired by all.
and
Back to your question, I would not purposefully seek separation and harm for myself. I don't see how a being that is Love would purposefully seek such things for itself, all other things being equal. That seems downright illogical. Even in our world, we seek the things we see as good.
William: If you read through the narration you will find that you have already used Callum to express those concerns and I have used Manu Iti to answer those concerns already.
The Tanager: Is that being judgmental or not, in your use of that term?
William: If one is unable to accept the others explanation, it may well be because one is stymied by judgmentalism...
The Tanager: I would also add that, definitionally, I don't see how one can share a disagreement without judging the thing disagreed with as being wrong.
William: If one can show the other why it is incorrect, then that is part of the process of discussion. Be aware that issues of right and wrong stem from a judgmental personality and thus the logic might be incorrect in the first place. If you choose to argue through your character Callum, that it seems illogical, then it would pay to explain why Callum thinks this is the case, and give opportunity for Manu Iti to respond.
And then address what Manu Iti has said in his answer.
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The Tanager
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Post #16
William wrote:William: If you read through the narration you will find that you have already used Callum to express those concerns and I have used Manu Iti to answer those concerns already.
And it's still not that clear to me. You think it should be clear, but it isn't. You say issues of right/wrong stems from judgmentalism. I'm okay with that. You are judgmental in that sense. You think certain things are right and certain things are wrong. Manu Iti speaks from that perspective as well. Everyone does. So, I don't get this guideline against being judgmental. Is it wanting everyone to believe truth is subjective? If so, then that is still a judgment concerning right/wrong.William wrote:William: If one can show the other why it is incorrect, then that is part of the process of discussion. Be aware that issues of right and wrong stem from a judgmental personality and thus the logic might be incorrect in the first place. If you choose to argue through your character Callum, that it seems illogical, then it would pay to explain why Callum thinks this is the case, and give opportunity for Manu Iti to respond.
And then address what Manu Iti has said in his answer.
As of right now, I will continue Callum's part in this discussion how I have been going about it. If it ever crosses the line in your view, then please let me know through this or PM, explaining exactly how it crosses the line, so that I can stop doing that.
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William
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Post #17
A Note to The Readers:
The Tanager has PMed me regarding recent events in the Musing On The Mother thread, and the following is my answer to that.
______________________________________
William: I do have things to say in reply to this Dear Tanager.
However, I am wanting to avoid use of PM as it hides things from the Readers - which is specifically why I created the "Sharing In The Building" thread of the Sub-Forum, where the OP states clearly;
I am more than happy to discuss ideas formulating regarding the communication problem between we the players and our Characters Manu Iti and Callum, here in this thread.
Cheers
The Tanager has PMed me regarding recent events in the Musing On The Mother thread, and the following is my answer to that.
______________________________________
William: I do have things to say in reply to this Dear Tanager.
However, I am wanting to avoid use of PM as it hides things from the Readers - which is specifically why I created the "Sharing In The Building" thread of the Sub-Forum, where the OP states clearly;
- "The use of PMing for the purpose this thread is created to do, is discouraged.
The moderator wishes the Readers to have access to data of process which PMing would otherwise hide from them.
Any comments and questions related to post in this thread, should also be answered in this thread, rather than in the role-play threads."
I am more than happy to discuss ideas formulating regarding the communication problem between we the players and our Characters Manu Iti and Callum, here in this thread.
Cheers
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William
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Post #18
William: To get the ball rolling, the withdrawal of my Character from the campfire situation was for the purpose of "Bringing Act I to a conclusion"
As the player I felt that my Character - thus I - needed time out in order to evaluate the overall content of Act I and configure from that, a different means of approach other than what has been attempted so far.
In this, I am thinking that the next move will be to lock the current thread and create the next one - as "Musing On The Mother - Act II" in which my Character will return from his quiet place, refreshed and ready to apply the new approach.
Which reminds me. It is against the rules of this sub-forum for any player to control another Characters movements. Your last post needs to be corrected in relation to that, as your narrations states;
William: My character will indeed be returning, when I bring him back.
As can be seen, you felt the need to bring him back in order for your character to be able to convey information.
That information can be conveyed in Act II, when I bring my Character back to the Encampment.
As the player I felt that my Character - thus I - needed time out in order to evaluate the overall content of Act I and configure from that, a different means of approach other than what has been attempted so far.
In this, I am thinking that the next move will be to lock the current thread and create the next one - as "Musing On The Mother - Act II" in which my Character will return from his quiet place, refreshed and ready to apply the new approach.
Which reminds me. It is against the rules of this sub-forum for any player to control another Characters movements. Your last post needs to be corrected in relation to that, as your narrations states;
- I wait for him to return. I sleep and feel rested. Maybe I slept for days, I don't know. I have the fire ready when he returns. Then he does.
William: My character will indeed be returning, when I bring him back.
As can be seen, you felt the need to bring him back in order for your character to be able to convey information.
That information can be conveyed in Act II, when I bring my Character back to the Encampment.
Last edited by William on Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Tanager
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Post #19
I only put your return in because your last post made it sound like you were returning. I didn't think how else to convey my thoughts without doing that. I wasn't fully happy with it, but sent it anyway. I'm sure there could be other better things I could have done, but I didn't know you were wanting different acts. I wasn't trying to control anything. I'm fine taking that out. I'm fine doing a second act. I am looking forward to a new approach.
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William
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Post #20
William: Let me know what changes you want to make to correct the post and I will carry them out.
