Sharing In The Building

Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.

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Sharing In The Building

Post #1

Post by William »

Participants in the Threads are entitled to help create the environment of this "Around The Camp Fire" sub-forum.
I, as moderator, am interested in helping to build an environment that all participants are comfortable with, bearing in mind that the rules of this sub-forum are the cornerstones from which such foundation will be built, and as such - are the overall guide for all participants to follow.

The use of PMing for the purpose this thread is created to do, is discouraged.
The moderator wishes the Readers to have access to data of process which PMing would otherwise hide from them.

Any comments and questions related to post in this thread, should also be answered in this thread, rather than in the role-play threads.
Last edited by William on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post #61

Post by The Tanager »

In lieu of what you've said about the rule, we may need to talk about post 43. You are making decisions that determine certain things about my characters. This is a tricky area. You've done it when I abandoned Callum, and I see that as okay. You've allowed me to regain control there. It's different with providing back story for Ruthie as well, whom I have not abandoned. Now, it works story line wise, but I feel you are determining/controlling things about my character that I would not have chosen myself. It's more about the principle, because I would be fine agreeing to this content. I'm just trying to follow your advice on nipping things in the bud.

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Post #62

Post by William »

The problem is that in this environment, something does not come from nothing.

In line with that, you gave no backstory and Callum knows next to nothing, so isn't much help.

Whereas my backstory fits well, and does nothing to threaten either of your characters.

Appreciate that I put a lot of time and effort into this, and you could have remained out of this Role-Play the first time you gave up on it, but brought your character back into the game.

All I have done is give the best explanation as to where Ruthie derived from, and there is nothing to nip in the bud.

Whatever precisely is it that you require Ruthie to remain in The Realm of The Cats, I have given you that opportunity.

If you do not want adoption to occur, that will be fine. The back-story I created for Ruthie does not mean you are not the creator of the character.

In relation to my observations that I felt you have not been following the story-line as per more evidence of that which I mentioned in my last post in this 'Building' thread - which you have given no comment to, I feel that I have done more than I really had to, given the evidence and am not willing to keep editing story-lines to suit your failure to follow said story-lines. You should know that something does not come from nothing in the Holographic Universes if you have been following the story-line.

If you simply are looking for some way of not playing anymore - just stop playing but I have no more patience to offer you Tanager, and feel I have been more than accommodating but you seem to want to fight rather than play.

Extra Rules.eta 031019
(Rules are subject to be added to as the necessity presents itself .)

â–º Remember to role play. Make an effort to bring the situation alive in ones imagination when making posts.
â–º Stay True to the Story-line developing. (I have added to this rule on account of this problem) @
â–º Never interfere with another Players Character, in order to physically control said Character within the Role-Play story-line.
â–º Do not post anything in this thread without first joining the Group.
â–º Enjoy Yourself.

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Post #63

Post by The Tanager »

I am not looking for a way out. If that was the case, then I would just leave without posting more. I'm not wanting to fight and I'm not just playing around. If you assume otherwise, your frustrations will just continue to build up like they seemingly are. Your vision of me and my intentions in all of this couldn't be further from the truth. For both of our sakes, please take me at my words and ask clarifying questions if you start to think something seems between my actions and words. Give me the benefit of the doubt.

Like I already said, I don't have a problem with the content of your latest post in Act III itself, I'm just pointing out that it does conflict with the rule as you've stated it and there is no extra notice to the participants here that you can make these choices to fit the characters with what you envision about the laws of this reality. The previous choices you made for Ruthie that I let go didn't threaten what I wanted to do with the character either, but you partly blamed me for the following problems because I said nothing at that time. I'm now doing what you said I should have done in that kind of situation, and you are annoyed at me. It's lose-lose for me, it appears.

As to me not following the story-lines, if I ever make a choice that goes against the laws of this reality (not the rules themselves, but what you envision as the laws of the created worlds), show grace in that you have a fuller picture of this environment that others don't. Just directly inform me and I'll correct my mistake.

As to the evidence from your last post, I thought we had moved on and you were just owning up to another mistake in that line. I guess not. As to Ngaru being Ruthie's creator, I was perfectly fine with that choice within the world of the story, that Ruthie is from the realm of the cats. That doesn't mean Ruthie is not my creation. The rule of this sub-forum applies to us humans. It is a rule in our world, not the literary world we are co-creating. The rule applies to me and you, not Ngaru.

You've now added the "stay true to the story-line developing" rule because of this exchange of ours, but I don't see how I'm breaking that as stated. If I'm breaking it, then you have a rule that does not clearly reflect your vision of that rule. I was fine with you noting that Ruthie had to remain in the realm of the cats; I was willing to follow that story-line. That story-line can be followed (and I was doing so) with Ruthie having free will and refusing to be used as a spy as you made Ngaru try to do. You didn't like that, possibly assuming I was "playing around" or "wanting to fight," and we've continued to have misunderstandings here. There was no rule clearly stated to me that Ruthie could have no free will, at least concerning Ngaru's commands, because of the way you envision this reality working. You seem to have that kind of thing in mind, but no rule clearly states that, including this new "stay true to the story-line developing" unless I missed the post where you say that Ngaru's commands cannot be disobeyed by creatures in her realm.

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Post #64

Post by William »

Please comment on this post. @ regarding the issue of not following The Story-Line as I would like to know if we are even on the same page in relation to that.

Thanks.

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Post #65

Post by The Tanager »

I did, in paragraphs 4 and 5 of post 63. If you are on a different page from that, then you need to clarify your concern. I'll explain it again. You said that your quote was (1) a "very plain" reference to the creator of Ruthie and (2) that I decided to let it slide.

(1) It is a clear reference within the literary world that Ngaru is creator and ruler over the cats, including Ruthie. But the Creator-controller rule applies to you and I, not our literary creations. That is where our dispute was and where I am clearly Ruthie's creator, not you (the only other alternative).

(2) I "let it slide" because I did not see that as you controlling Ruthie, but telling me how the realm of cats works, that she can't go into another realm (unless, as you later chose, Ngaru allowed that possibility). I was following the story line there. You then added Ngaru's wish to use Ruthie as a spy as part of the story line and her subsequent command to Ruthie. I continued to follow that story line, choosing Ruthie to disobey within that story line. You seem, however, to think the "story line" was that Ruthie can't have free will and must do what Ngaru commanded as Ruthie's literary creator, even though I am her actual creator. If so, where was that clarified as part of the story line or listed rules?

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Post #66

Post by William »

Let us now go over the points of our discussion regarding those who create characters.

What does the rule mean?

It means that when a character is written into the story, the one writing it into the story is the Characters Creator, such as Manu Iti is my creation and Callum is yours.

In regard to the story, therefore it was established in previous conversation in this Building thread eventually, that Ruthie was your creation, only it was not a sure thing before that because of the circumstances.

The circumstances were that Ruthie was with Callum when he awoke. It was unknown where exactly Callum was, and once it was worked out, there was still the matter of whether Ruthie was a creature of that place or whether she was placed into the Realm by you, and since you did not make that plain, I couldn't tell.

In order to get a bead on that, I made fairly early references to Ruthie being a creature of the Realm which Callum was in, especially in relation to the one mentioned where I specifically wrote "Ruthie will take you as far as the entrance, but there you will go on without her, for she belongs to Ngaru Whaea and cannot go where you are going."

It took a number of pages of writing after that, for you to then complain about this - to say that you created Ruthie and therefore I shouldn't be able to control that character.

After more back and forthing, it became apparent that you were not going to budge on that point, so I decided to accept you were Ruthie's Creator, even that it meant half the thread would have to be re-written.

You are now complaining that I should not write a backstory on your character, as it is your creation.

There needs to be a backstory because of the fact that - following the story-line - something does not come from nothing/nowhere and my Character Manu Iti is very specific on accounting for the unusually things which happen.

Since Ruthie is not a creation of Ngaru Whaea's, there has to be a place where Ruthie came from.

You have three choices. Accept the backstory given, create your own or do nothing, because the back-story is acceptable as an adequate explanation for Manu Iti to understand as plausible.

If you create your own back story re Ruthie, be aware that it cannot include anything which suggests your character came out of 'nowhere' because it is established in the story-line that 'nowhere' does not exist.

Note that regardless of what backstory you come up with, Ruthie will likely not be allowed to remain in the realm of The Cats unless it is agreed that She becomes adopted.

This is because my Character Ngaru Whaea is specifically strict about things. Short on words and to the point, and because of Her back-story - which has also been mentioned in the Story-Line - She has good reason to be as She is.

The back-story I gave for why Ruthie is in The Realm of Cats, would go a long way to convincing Ngaru Whaea to adopt Ruthie, thus allowing Ruthie to stay in The Realm, as it appears you would like her to.

Otherwise Ruthie most likely must leave the Realm along with Callum.

If you do not give any backstory, the one I gave will suffice, as it has no bearing on you having brought Ruthie into the story, and does not give me any opportunity to control Ruthie's Character AND because it allows for Manu Iti to be satisfied that Ruthie was not taken from another Realm in which She will have to be returned.

The Realm my backstory gave where Ruthie came from, She would not have to be returned to.

As to a previous comment you made regarding not knowing much about the workings of The Holographic Universes, that is part of the Game-Play. The more that is revealed, the more one can mature ones Character(s) in relation to that.

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Post #67

Post by The Tanager »

The only reason I complained about you controlling Ruthie is because you accused me of controlling her and that she was not my creation. That there was ever any question over who created Ruthie is ridiculous to me. You and I are the only creators here. You didn't create her. You didn't create a cat that I overtook and named. It never occurred to me that you were confusing Ruthie being a "creature of the realm" with not being my creation. There is no rule like that you are the only one that can create "creatures of the realm". It was only recently in our back and forth that I realized this has been what you were thinking.

You talk about your references to try to get a bead on that, but they do nothing to clarify that is what was causing your confusion on this matter. To say that Ruthie belongs to Ngaru is most clearly understood as Ngaru is Ruthie's ruler in the literary world but not William being her creator, since it was not contrasted against The Tanager being her creator. To think that I should have clearly understood this idea that only you can make "creatures of the realm" from comments like that seems silly.

I thought we got over that, but then you go and determine things about Ruthie's back story, which is controlling the character. If I tried to fill in some of Master ColdFire's back story, that would be me controlling the character and you would have said that I couldn't do that. I was more than willing to let your back story stand, but you had just made a big deal about how much of the previous confusion was due to me letting your attempts to control Ruthie slide. So, I did what you said I should do. But you skewer me for doing that.

From that, just recently, another rule you have in mind but haven't clearly stated, comes to light: you must give some of the back story to all of your creatures. Even though I didn't do that with my other creations in earlier acts. Not every character's back story needs to be explained. Perhaps explanations would come out later; perhaps I would have never said more. I should have that choice over my characters.

In spite of these unclear expectations and your claims of my motivations being less than sincere, I'm more than willing to continue doing this with you because I think I can still learn from you, that you can learn from me, and that exchanging ideas in this format can bring fun and joy.

So, do you want these two expectations (however you want to word them) to be additional rules?

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Post #68

Post by William »

How big is Ruthie in relation to the cat in the picture?

Image

I am not interested in continuing arguing as it is established that I am following the story-line in regard to ascertaining where Ruthie comes from and that creating a back-story regarding Ruthie is not the same as you making something up about where Master ColdFire comes from, as I explained already that Manu Iti's Character requires knowing where things derived as this is part of the role.

I gave you your options, in relation to that, so perhaps you might be gracious enough to choose and get on with the unfolding story of the role play.

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Post #69

Post by The Tanager »

I feel I have been very patient in allowing you to overcome some of my previous concerns, but those concerns continue to be confirmed. The misunderstandings that have arisen are not being cleared away and so it will just be more of the same. I've tried. You've tried. To some degree we are apparently still talking past each other. You'll probably still think it's about a particular incident, about Ruthie's back story, but I've tried over and over to get at the deeper issues and failed to get that across. I'm sorry that it came to this and for my mistakes in our exchanges. I wish you well and will gladly talk to you in other threads. If you feel that you need my permission, then I give you complete control of all of the characters that I created.

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Post #70

Post by William »

Manu Iti is informed by Wiremu of Callum's adoption @

I hope then that you will continue to read the progress of the unfolding story now that I have charge of The Character Callum.

Perhaps somewhere down the line, once you have gained a level of understanding of The Hologram Dimensions and following Story-lines, you might want to bring another Character to The Camp Fire situation.

Thank You for at least giving it a go Tanager.

:)

Cheers

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