Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.

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Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #1

Post by William »

[Rules Regarding Posting in this sub-forum]

David: There is always a degree of telepathy involved in Christianity and in other religions. And it is indeed their 'own conscience'. I know. I have talks with 'God' in my head all the time - but I know it's me.

William: I am interested in getting into a discussion [and potentially forming rapport with you] about your mention of the 'talks' you have with 'God' in your head all the time that you know is 'you' talking with yourself .

David: I see no point in discussing my discussions with myself because I effectively have me arguing with myself. It's how I can anticipate arguments before they happen. I don't think that is going to get you anywhere.

William: Well if you change your mind, you know where to find me.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #11

Post by bluegreenearth »

William wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:30 pm Case 2:

Back around the start of 2001 onwards, I was interacting on the internet in a Yahoo group.
We were gathered because of our individual mutual interests in something which became somewhat popular quickly and we who were gathered, had engaged with that material as folk who were already quiet aware of the immaterial quality of life's experience - so on that level, we all had this in common.

Eventually we encouraged the owner of the popular site where the material first became public, to create a Forum where we could interact better. The owner was busy with other things so left the forum in our collective charge and we could sort things out together as they came up, because he would not intervene re moderator stuff.

[It worked out quite well until The Trolls revealed themselves.]

The opportunity to interact in this way gave us a unique experience to engage with the materials and discuss the broader meaning behind those materials.

Prior to this, I had been experimenting with Ideomotor effect and examining the results. In doing so, I had found another way in which to connect with the MBC [which the materials referred to as "First Source"] and some of the group had difficulty in accepting that particular method I had developed.


I had shown them pictures of my devices - which I referred to as "Universal Intelligence Communication Devices" and these are the images I showed them.[/color]

Image

_____________________________________

A couple of years go by and we in our forum were engaging in discussing the topic of Crop Circles and the possible relationship of these, with the ideas the material was speaking about.

We discussed the different explanations which were available as to why crop circles happened and in, conjunction with another theory begin explored [we are all connected by an immaterial background reality - aka - MBC] which the material referred to as "Source Reality" ] we came up with the idea of putting it to the test by creating our own and each imputing what we wanted to see in the final result as a crop-circle, all in the understanding that what we were doing was 'asking' for confirmation of Background Reality [BR] through the use of Crop-Circles, and we were not disappointed with the results.

So - as a small team of fairly integrated subjects experimenting with objects in correlation with the BR Theory - we all agreed with the results - what we each asked for - we got, and on more than one occasion.

Since we thus had evidence, it was suggested that we take this evidence to the wider audience, but coincidently the Troll intrusion trashed the place and there was nothing we could do about it as the forum owner refused to intervene, and eventually the forum was swamped and the owner closed it down and - apparently deleted it.

One of the crop-circles which was created at this time, is called The Crabwood, and looks like this:


Image
First of all, the "Ideomotor Effect" simply demonstrates how the subconscious activity in the brain evolved to cause involuntary actions to occur in the body when the conscious activity in the brain is too slow or too distracted. This began as an emergent survival mechanism (e.g. a reflexive response in anticipate of a painful experience) which can also be triggered in more mundane circumstances like when the subconscious brain automatically activates the salivary glands after something compelled the conscious brain to think of eating something delicious. Therefore, your personal experiences can be more reasonably explained in the context of your evolved brain than by the existence of a divine MBC. Of course, this isn't to suggest that a divine MBC couldn't still be involved somehow and somewhere in the process, but I'm unaware of any evidence of it being necessarily involved at this point.

As for crop circles, apparently, you aren't aware that the majority of these unique expressions of landscape art were exposed as hoaxes quite some time ago. In fact, the very first crop circles ever documented were revealed as hoaxes by the people who initially invented this artistic concept, Doug Bower and his co-conspirator Dave Chorley. So, unless the divine MBC borrowed the idea from the late night hijinks of a few bored but clever artists, there is no justifiable reason to accept "The Crabwood" landscape art as a justification for the belief. Of course, it is also possible that I've misunderstood what you were trying to convey in your narrative.

Personal Note: I have to be honest here... The reason I didn't provide a more elaborate response earlier is because I was caught off-guard and a bit creeped-out by your implied confidence in this strange and unusual belief. In fact, while reading through your narrative for the third or fourth time, I was considering the possibility that you might be testing my credulity or ability to think critically by pretending to take the belief seriously. After all, you seem to know how to think critically when arguing against the beliefs of other theists. So, I expected that you would know how to think more critically about this belief as well. Part of me still hopes that you are just having a bit of fun at my expense. However, if you aren't pulling my leg, then I'll do my best to provide you with some critical thinking questions to consider. Admittedly, I would still like to reserve my right to back-away slowly and carefully if you start going on and on about an international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids (reference to the movie, "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb").

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #12

Post by William »

William: Yes. As I mentioned re the ideomoter effect, it was specific to the use of devices which were created for the use of communication, which is why you are not suggesting that a divine MBC couldn't still be involved somehow and somewhere in that process.

While you may be unaware of any evidence of it being necessarily involved, as I mentioned prior to us coming to this thread for discussion, that there is a ton of evidence to go over re - in this case, for you - to critique as you can and will and I would give you the same in return.

In this case, similar device can be made by you [or anyone] and used in order to conduct an examination and make notes of your findings, because the method is repeatable, and results are able to be recorded and analyzed.

Re the crop circles, I made it quite clear that the small team of participants discussed the various methods rumored to being behind the creation of these artistic wonders, and among those options was that they were created by humans.

What I was pointing to was that it did not matter to us HOW the crop-circles were created, but whether we could order up our own and if so, how that might be evidence of the MBC interacting with the small team of experimenters.

We were unconcerned as to how the MBC got it done. Our focus was on whether it could be done.

I spoke of the material we were all exposed to which was why we came together in the first place, and that the material spoke about how all things were connected.

Therefore, whether is was Aliens, or Earth-shimmers, wind vortex or humans with rope and boards, since all things were connected, none of those ways of forming CCs excluded the MBC being involved.

I can assure you I am not pulling your leg for a laugh BGE. I made the claim that I could provide you with evidence. I did not say the evidence would or would not have any creepy affect on you. I even mentioned that some of the team had similar concerns re my use of the communications devices. Naturally they had to place those concerns to one side, once the Crabwood CC made its appearance. "Perhaps Williams position has merit after all?" Certainly they had to question the validity of the belief they had held regarding the use of such device, which - to be honest - was along the same lines as Christian argue..."it is of the creepy one".

I can only say to that, there has never been a time when communicating through said device, that anything 'creepy' ever went on. What actually went on is that I learned a great deal from it all, about life on Earth in general and my part in that, and about how to adjust bias to better suit new information. All great device for deeper introspection.

By all means give yourself a break from this. I have Case 3 ready to offer for your perusal. when you are ready to receive it.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #13

Post by bluegreenearth »

[Replying to William in post #12]

It appears I misunderstood your narrative a bit. I now understand that you are claiming the pattern depicted in the landscape art appeared to resemble what you had in your mind at a time before anyone had created them. From there, you presumed that your mind had somehow connected with the minds of the landscape artists for them to have created the pattern you had previously imagined. Am I summarizing your reasoning accurately?

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #14

Post by William »

William: It wasn't a case that I asked for such a CC to be created. The example I gave was more to do with confirmation within the group that my use of communications device was not unacceptable, and the group learned this through the experimenting we were doing with CC re MBC.

We were already attracted to the idea that the MBC existed due to our individual paths taken prior to the material being released. We each referred to "it" by a different 'name' in relation to those individuate pathways taken to reach that conclusion as individuals.

It was the released material which served as a catalyst for getting the group together - first in a yahoo group and then later - at our request to the site owner where the material was first published - in a internet forum he set up for us, where we could better communicate together. The material referred to the MBC as "First Source" and the Mind as "First Source Reality".

The point of the experiment was to see if we could invoke a response from the MBC which we each could agree together as being objective evidence.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #15

Post by bluegreenearth »

William wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:46 pm William: It wasn't a case that I asked for such a CC to be created. The example I gave was more to do with confirmation within the group that my use of communications device was not unacceptable, and the group learned this through the experimenting we were doing with CC re MBC.

We were already attracted to the idea that the MBC existed due to our individual paths taken prior to the material being released. We each referred to "it" by a different 'name' in relation to those individuate pathways taken to reach that conclusion as individuals.

It was the released material which served as a catalyst for getting the group together - first in a yahoo group and then later - at our request to the site owner where the material was first published - in a internet forum he set up for us, where we could better communicate together. The material referred to the MBC as "First Source" and the Mind as "First Source Reality".

The point of the experiment was to see if we could invoke a response from the MBC which we each could agree together as being objective evidence.
I'm more interested in how you would determine if the belief was false.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #16

Post by William »

William: Well one way would be to prove that the evidence was false, by providing an explanation which did not involve the MBC.
This in itself would be difficult to do, since we asked the MBC to play along, and were able to see this playing along in the evidence the playing along gave to us.

The group did question the validity of some claims as the CCs had to display an undeniable connect with the requests being made.
Such claims which did not fall into that criteria were deemed to be false.

Apart from that, nothing jumps to mind as to other ways in which we could claim the events were false. It wasn't simply a case of personal bias, [wanting to see in the evidence something which wasn't objectively there for all to see] and we could discount coincidence since the experiments did go on successfully for some time before the trolls made themselves known through disruption strategies.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #17

Post by bluegreenearth »

[Replying to William in post #16]

You haven't ruled-out confirmation bias yet.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #18

Post by William »

William: If I were to take into consideration the first 17.5 years of my life leading up to these sets of events which led me to investigate 'the power of prayer' - I would have to be honest and say that those years were also used to develop confirmation bias that life was nothing more just an accident and I just had to get through it the best I could, for as long as possible, and not to take my place in the scheme of things as something which could seriously affect outcomes re the rest of the world.

Confirmation bias is involved whatever position you or I might take. I do not rule it out or rule it in. I accept that it is part of the process, regardless of whether ones position leans toward theist or atheist ideas and explanations.

I think that is the most honest way in which to see confirmation bias. I do not rule out any alternative explanations and if you have any, I am open to hearing about these, in relation to what I have been, and hope to continue, sharing with you.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #19

Post by bluegreenearth »

William wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:39 am Confirmation bias is involved whatever position you or I might take. I do not rule it out or rule it in. I accept that it is part of the process, regardless of whether ones position leans toward theist or atheist ideas and explanations.

I think that is the most honest way in which to see confirmation bias. I do not rule out any alternative explanations and if you have any, I am open to hearing about these, in relation to what I have been, and hope to continue, sharing with you.[/color]
Confirmation bias is mitigated by rigorously attempting to falsify the proposed claim rather than searching for evidence to support it. As for alternative explanations, I'm still not sure I understand your claim well enough for me to offer an alternative explanation yet. Please describe the methods and results of your experiment again in as much detail as necessary to help me understand it accurately.

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Re: Musing on "A Mind Behind Creation"

Post #20

Post by William »

William: I think where the misunderstanding is between us [currently] is that I have been answering your question as to how I have been mitigating confirmation bias.

Remember, I came from the [traditionally atheistic] position and acknowledged that the first 17.5 years of my life leading up to these sets of events which led me to investigate 'the power of prayer' coinciding events, - ideomotor effect re communication technique and as I have said, much more that I have not mentioned as yet - I would have to be honest and say that in those years leading to my developing these ways in which to mitigate the confirmation bias which had resulted, I had to falsify my atheistic-like stance which developed confirmation bias that life was nothing more just an accident and that all things of the mind were the result of the brain [emergent theory].

I have already been sharing with you what I have done re mitigation processes and confirmation bias.

That is why I said I do not rule out any alternative explanations and if you have any, I am open to hearing about these, in relation to what I have been, and hope to continue, sharing with you.

I will also ask you the same question you asked me.

What have you done in the way of rigorous methods to attempt to falsify the Emergent Theory, if indeed that is the position you hold on these matters against the idea that we exist within a creation and that there is indeed a Mind Behind that Creation?

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