Recently started watching a Netflix documentary about Mormonism and how (at least up to this point) the church seemed to be going to any and all means to stop documentation from getting out that, they think, would totally uproot their belief system (though I haven't finished it yet).
So, what would it take, for you, to disavow your religion and religious belief?
Documentation from writers of that time period?
Documentation from current high up leaders?
Testimony of how it's a farce from those who spent the majority of their lives in it, finally seeing their own light?
Science?
Data?
Another, more believable religion?
For those of us who are in the 'been-there-done-that-bought-the-t-shirt' crowd, what was it that caused you to change?
What would it take for you?
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #71To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #72To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #73The science is not in the observation but in the explanation. It's not hard for people to observe that rivers run into the sea and the sea level doesn't rise. Contemplation of this observation can easily lead to the conclusion that the water somehow is removed and must go back to where it started. No mention is made of the role of rainfall, so for all we know they might have thought that invisible hordes of angels bucketed the water out of the sea. To equate the biblical passage with the hydrological cycle as we understand it is a mighty big stretch.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:33 pmAt very least, this shows that ancient people weren't as ignorant as everyone seems to think.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pmTHE BIBLE : “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #74So does NASA ....
source: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... her-worlds
You can pretend that planetary science does not recognise the existence of sunsets/sunrises ... but it does.
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #75The words do not scientifically describe the mechanism behind the observations we make.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:43 am You can pretend that planetary science does not recognise the existence of sunsets/sunrises ... but it does.
And the sun does not "hurry back to where it rises"!
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #76In this case archaeology.brunumb wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:06 pmWhat science is involved in removing a body from a cross and burying it?Goose wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:44 pm"Unlike Crossan...I believe that the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ burial are largely consistent with the archaeological evidence. Although archaeology does not prove there was a follower of Jesus named Joseph of Arimathea or that Pontius Pilate granted his request for Jesus’ body, the Gospel accounts describing Jesus’ removal from the cross and burial are consistent with archaeological evidence and with Jewish law." - [Jodi Magness]
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"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak
"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia
"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb
"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #77The same as any other belief I currently hold to be true, prove it false.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 pmSo, what would it take, for you, to disavow your religion and religious belief?
That would be a very good start.Documentation from writers of that time period?
If they had proved the belief false.Documentation from current high up leaders?
Same answer as above.Testimony of how it's a farce from those who spent the majority of their lives in it, finally seeing their own light?
Same answer as above.Science?
Data?
Another, more believable religion?
Things atheists say:
"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak
"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia
"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb
"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)
"Is it the case [that torturing and killing babies for fun is immoral]? Prove it." - Bust Nak
"For the record...I think the Gospels are intentional fiction and Jesus wasn't a real guy." – Difflugia
"Julius Caesar and Jesus both didn't exist." - brunumb
"...most atheists have no arguments or evidence to disprove God." – unknown soldier (a.k.a. the banned member Jagella)
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #78Just because I like to pick nits, technically the sun does move. In fact it's moving pretty fast, about 220 kilometers per second.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:33 pm Also, we say the sun moves. We say that, despite knowing full well that it doesn't. The sun rises. The sun sets. The sun disappears below the horizon.
https://astronomy.com/magazine/ask-astr ... -milky-way
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #79Coming at it from the other way, the single most compelling fact for me, is that Jesus' apostles, teaching that He rose from the grave, walked and ate with them for a time, were willing to suffer torture and death, rather than recant their beliefs.
Evidence that these men didn't exist, or that none of them were willing to suffer martyrdom would go a long way toward shaking my faith in Christianity.
Evidence that these men didn't exist, or that none of them were willing to suffer martyrdom would go a long way toward shaking my faith in Christianity.
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Re: What would it take for you?
Post #80Yet we have Islamists who are not only willing to die for their beliefs, but do so without being tortured. Supposedly, they choose death to further their cause, rather than simply just be willing to die if they don't recant their beliefs.The Barbarian wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:26 am Coming at it from the other way, the single most compelling fact for me, is that Jesus' apostles, teaching that He rose from the grave, walked and ate with them for a time, were willing to suffer torture and death, rather than recant their beliefs.
Evidence that these men didn't exist, or that none of them were willing to suffer martyrdom would go a long way toward shaking my faith in Christianity.
This seems to point to Islam as the stronger choice doesn't it?
I personally find this completely uncompelling simply due to the fact that we have evidence that more than one faith has martyrs. They can't all be right. The could all be wrong though...