I have heard some Christians say that it is unChristian to watch anything on TV that is rated R or that displays sex, adult language, and other indecent scenes. Personally, I find that standard to be highly restrictive and perhaps even impractical given the content on a lot of television programs nowadays. I was wondering if this was the way Christians are to really be or is this debatable and perhaps there's even another more lenient standard.
I know one counter would be that the Bible describes gory details and in some cases talks about sex. So how could reading or watching of such content be immoral?
What is the Christian position(s) on rated R movies?
What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
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What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #11This is rich. I wonder how many pastors use this excuse for visiting "Gentlemen's Clubs" or sampling prostitutes' wares?AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 pm One further explanation mentions that Christians can watch these films so that they can know what's going on in the culture. In a sense, I kinda agree. How can you effectively reach an immoral culture, if you don't have some understanding of it and weigh it against what the Bible says?
'I was just doing research.'
"Does that also explain the meth we found in your pocket?"
'Yes, more research. How can I reach meth heads if I don't know how immoral they are?'
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #12I understood you to be asking what it is rather than what it should be.AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 pmThanks for posting that passage but I'm also looking for the right position or the most logical/coherent one.
If you're asking me how Christians should feel about certain movies and we assume a Christianity that is even a little bit Pauline, then the second half of Romans 14:23 describes the kind of Christianity that Paul aspired to and occasionally achieved.
If your goal is to nurture the Christ nature within you, then nothing that you do to that end is sin. The corollary, though, is that if you are instead indulging in things that Paul would say are "according to the flesh," then it is sin regardless of what it is.Indeed, everything that is not of faith is sin.
If the movie is violent, are you empathizing with the victim and feel both horror and a desire to salvage the perpetrator? Or are you enjoying a feeling of satisfaction? If the movie invites us to see violent vengeance as desirable or even just, the movie is offensive from a Christian standpoint. It's possible for an advanced Christian to watch such a movie "in the Spirit," once again, as Paul would say, but many people, even Christians, would find it difficult to avoid being pleased when the "bad guy" gets what is presented as their comeuppance. Watching such a movie alone to help ones ability to see both "good guys" and "bad guys" as victims together and to pray for those that may find themselves in such a position outside the safety of fiction could very well be an advanced form of devotion for the strong Christian. To take a weaker Christian to such a film, however, is an invitation for them to stumble and sin.
On the other side of the coin, filmmakers should not be glorifying sin. The Christian fantasy that compassion and mercy will win should be underlying theme. Escapism is fine, but satisfaction should always come from redemption rather than destruction. True Christian victory is shared and any zero-sum contest is a failure no matter who appears to win. Not all movies are escapist (or at least not entirely so) and may involve things like moral ambiguity, but a Christian filmmaker must be vigilant to avoid even subconscious "othering" of even fictional characters. Even when situations are morally and emotionally uncertain, then end result must reinforce that in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Genitile, neither slave nor free. If a Christian viewer doesn't ultimately yearn to break bread with every single character in fellowship exactly as they are, then the movie has failed its purpose. If the filmmaker doesn't want the viewer to understand each character (and indeed, by extension, every single human being) as a child of God and co-heir to the Kingdom, then the making of the film is indulging the sin nature; it's κατὰ σάρκα, as Paul would say.
In this light, I propose a few movies that are rated R, but are some of the most Christian movies I can think of: The Shining, A Clockwork Orange, and American Psycho. Kids shouldn't watch them, obviously (all three movies are of an intensity that children should never be expected to handle), but properly viewed, all three offer complex and challenging looks at humanity and their relationship with evil in a way that I think Paul would approve of, at least if he could have let go of the sexual hangups that held him back from full communion with Christ while writing his epistles (the Corintlhian epistles, in particular).
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #13I cannot speak for anyone but myself but as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I avoid movies that present as entertainment things I believe God detests such as violence, immorality and spiritsim. I do not watch very many movies and haven't owned a tv in 20 years but find it best to stick to films that are marked as suitable for the whole family.
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #14Oh, but god doesn't detest violence, immorality and spiritisim.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:12 pmI cannot speak for anyone but myself but as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I avoid movies that present as entertainment things I believe God detests such as violence, immorality and spiritsim. I do not watch very many movies and haven't owned a tv in 20 years but find it best to stick to films that are marked as suitable for the whole family.
Although god loves violence:
Exodus 12:29
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
2 Samuel 6:7
The Lord's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
2 Samuel 6:7
The Lord's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.
and basks in immorality
Leviticus 25:44
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. [Personally, I find slavery---one human owning another---to be quite immoral]
Genesis 38:8-10
8 Then Judah said to Er’s brother Onan, “Go and sleep with your dead brother’s wife. Become like a husband to her. If children are born, they will belong to your brother Er.” 9 Onan knew that the children from this union would not belong to him. He had sexual relations with Tamar, but he did not allow himself to stay inside her. 10 This made the Lord angry. So he killed Onan also. [making someone have unwanted sex is rape]
Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." [Having people kill others because you don't like their sexual behavior is immoral. If god doesn't like it he should kill them himself]
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. [Personally, I find slavery---one human owning another---to be quite immoral]
Genesis 38:8-10
8 Then Judah said to Er’s brother Onan, “Go and sleep with your dead brother’s wife. Become like a husband to her. If children are born, they will belong to your brother Er.” 9 Onan knew that the children from this union would not belong to him. He had sexual relations with Tamar, but he did not allow himself to stay inside her. 10 This made the Lord angry. So he killed Onan also. [making someone have unwanted sex is rape]
Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." [Having people kill others because you don't like their sexual behavior is immoral. If god doesn't like it he should kill them himself]
he is afraid of spiritism
While god finds spirituality just dandy, after all, he's part of the spirit world and is said to reign over it; however, he is afraid that others, mere humans such as yourself, will gain control of it through various occult means and successfully challenge his position and authority. Hence, he launched a preemptive strike against any such encroachment through his Bible by making such practices a huge no-no in hopes of scaring people away. Obviously his tactic works.
.
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #15Ya did good.Miles wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:21 pmOh, but god doesn't detest violence, immorality and spiritisim.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:12 pmI cannot speak for anyone but myself but as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I avoid movies that present as entertainment things I believe God detests such as violence, immorality and spiritsim. I do not watch very many movies and haven't owned a tv in 20 years but find it best to stick to films that are marked as suitable for the whole family.
Although god loves violence:
Exodus 12:29
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
2 Samuel 6:7
The Lord's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.
and basks in immorality
Leviticus 25:44
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. [Personally, I find slavery---one human owning another---to be quite immoral]
Genesis 38:8-10
8 Then Judah said to Er’s brother Onan, “Go and sleep with your dead brother’s wife. Become like a husband to her. If children are born, they will belong to your brother Er.” 9 Onan knew that the children from this union would not belong to him. He had sexual relations with Tamar, but he did not allow himself to stay inside her. 10 This made the Lord angry. So he killed Onan also. [making someone have unwanted sex is rape]
Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." [Having people kill others because you don't like their sexual behavior is immoral. If god doesn't like it he should kill them himself]
he is afraid of spiritism
While god finds spirituality just dandy, after all, he's part of the spirit world and is said to reign over it; however, he is afraid that others, mere humans such as yourself, will gain control of it through various occult means and successfully challenge his position and authority. Hence, he launched a preemptive strike against any such encroachment through his Bible by making such practices a huge no-no in hopes of scaring people away. Obviously his tactic works.
.
In trying my best to be polite, I can't think of any other term than 'double standard' when Christians would speak or act against R rated stuff, when the very book they promote as holy is so full of it.
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #16This is the only logically consistent view since the Bible contains many R-rated elements. Those elements are acceptable (and indeed necessary) because you must show evil to show good. You can't show every possible action. You have to describe the difference between good and evil with concrete examples. Imagine what the story of Sodom and Gomorrah would look like if the FCC went over it and bleeped or redacted everything they were likely to. You'd see a lot of blacked over lines and be scratching your head wondering why the heck God destroyed those cities. For example, in the edited version, the angels sent down are chased by a pack of cheering zealots, not rapists. You'd get the wroooong idea.AgnosticBoy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:54 pmI'm also looking for the right position or the most logical/coherent one.
If I play the devil's advocate here (just to foster debate), I can say that your reference would only mean that Christians shouldn't engage in the behavior themselves, but it does not cover if they can watch, listen to, or read about others engaging in such behavior. Perhaps a conservative Christian would strongly oppose my view.
From searching the internet, I've found quite a few explanations that allow for some viewing of Rated R content just as long as you're not entertained or in agreement with it. In other words, the Christian can watch Rated R movies just as long as they do so having a proper or moral perspective.
So we can deduce it's okay to show wrong behaviour as long as the moral is right. Well, let's take that further. Why does the story have to say that? Why does the story itself have to tell you the correct moral? I think I can show that it doesn't have to, logically.
Imagine a parable in which some holy figure is telling a bad story with a bad moral, to show that it is a bad story with a bad moral. Imagine if you will, a story within a story that serves as an example of what stories you oughtn't to tell. We need that, don't we? Didn't we just prove we needed those examples when we're not to do something?
If so, why can't we watch every movie as long as we have someone to explain to us when the moral is wrong?
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #17Well I believe he does; do you mind?Miles wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:21 pmOh, but god doesn't detest violence, immorality and spiritisim.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:12 pmI cannot speak for anyone but myself but as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I avoid movies that present as entertainment things I believe God detests such as violence, immorality and spiritsim. I do not watch very many movies and haven't owned a tv in 20 years but find it best to stick to films that are marked as suitable for the whole family.
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #18JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:53 amWell I believe he does; do you mind?Miles wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:21 pmOh, but god doesn't detest violence, immorality and spiritisim.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:12 pmI cannot speak for anyone but myself but as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I avoid movies that present as entertainment things I believe God detests such as violence, immorality and spiritsim. I do not watch very many movies and haven't owned a tv in 20 years but find it best to stick to films that are marked as suitable for the whole family.
Be my guest. Ignore your Bible and believe whatever you like.
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #19I dont ignore the bible, I ignore your reading of the bible. Any problem with that?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: What is the Christian position on Rated R movies?
Post #20Sure you ignore it, at least in the sense that you disregard its implications, such as god does indeed love violence and basks in immorality (for examples of each see post ).JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:19 amI dont ignore the bible, I ignore your reading of the bible. Any problem with that?
.