God's whatever I say

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JoeyKnothead
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God's whatever I say

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

God's whatever I say he is.

God does whatever I say he does.

Wow, debate is so much easier when the mods don't care!
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Re: God's whatever I say

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Post by nobspeople »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:47 am God's whatever I say he is.

God does whatever I say he does.

Wow, debate is so much easier when the mods don't care!
Moderators caring or not aside, God has always been what people say it is and does whatever people say it does. This isn't new news.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:47 am God's whatever I say he is.

God does whatever I say he does.

Wow, debate is so much easier when the mods don't care!
Are you just preaching your religion, or did you have a debate question? :D

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Purple Knight
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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #4

Post by Purple Knight »

1213 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:17 pmAre you just preaching your religion, or did you have a debate question? :D
I can easily pull one out of the post, and it's about whether or not there's some cosmic barrier to people making up lies about God and using them for their own benefit. There probably isn't such a thing if God is fictional, but it seems there ought to be something similar if God is real.

The point here is, you can't really prove Knotty's post wrong, even if it is.

So let's say a priest tells a bunch of children that God needs them to offer their anuses. Maybe the priest actually believes this. He thinks, well, I'm doing God's work and I can't have sex with women, so I just have to have sex with little boys or I'll completely lose it. I need this, and God wants me to continue doing His work, right?

Perhaps you (whosoever is reading this) and I can agree that God doesn't want such a thing. But the poor child who believes it, and now he's having homosexual sex which is technically against the Bible. He didn't want to, but the priest convinced him it was right. The last book in Chronicles of Narnia actually did address the fate of the dupe (though he was duped into the worst thing, essentially blasphemy) saying the dupe goes to Heaven. Do you agree or disagree?

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #5

Post by 1213 »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 pm ...So let's say a priest tells a bunch of children that God needs them to offer their anuses. Maybe the priest actually believes this. He thinks, well, I'm doing God's work and I can't have sex with women, so I just have to have sex with little boys or I'll completely lose it. I need this, and God wants me to continue doing His work, right?
In Biblical point of view there is at least two things wrong in that.

but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
Matt. 18:6

The overseer therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, modest, hospitable, good at teaching;
1 Tim. 3:2

It is really sad if some priest goes against those two. That person is very hypocrite and I hope he would lose his position.
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 pm...saying the dupe goes to Heaven. Do you agree or disagree?
I personally believe what the Bible tells. According to it, eternal life, which I think is basically the same as heaven, is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

So, if person is righteous, I believe he goes to heaven/eternal life.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #6

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:26 pm
I personally believe what the Bible tells. According to it, eternal life, which I think is basically the same as heaven, is for righteous.
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)

So, if person is righteous,* I believe he goes to heaven/eternal life.
* which includes killing homosexuals and owning slaves. . . . . . . . I assume you're not gay.


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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #7

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:26 pm
I personally believe what the Bible tells. According to it, eternal life, which I think is basically the same as heaven, is for righteous.
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)

So, if person is righteous,* I believe he goes to heaven/eternal life.
* which includes killing homosexuals and owning slaves. . . . . . . . I assume you're not gay.


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Jews can do those things. Jews can genocide the Amalekites and stone hookers to death and presumably burn gay people. What the Bible says for everyone else (and Jews who have converted to Christianity) is judge not lest ye be judged, and don't cast any stones at anybody, ever, unless you're perfect.

The Old Testament says a lot of pretty sick stuff, yes, and gives permissions to do some horrible actions, but these permissions are specifically for the People of Israel and not anyone else. At the exact time the God of Israel said, hold on, maybe I'm for everybody, it became anti-punishment. At least, it became anti-punishment when the humans are doing the punishment.

Now this doesn't say a whole lot for consistency, since now we have a god that either 1) changes its mind or 2) is blatantly racialistic. But no, you can't hate or kill gay people. Or prostitutes. They're still probably wrong according to the Bible, but that's meaningless since you're no longer supposed to do anything about it, including merely judging them as wrong.
1213 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:26 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 pm...saying the dupe goes to Heaven. Do you agree or disagree?
I personally believe what the Bible tells. According to it, eternal life, which I think is basically the same as heaven, is for righteous.
That's almost tautological. If your implication is that a dupe can be either righteous in his heart or not, fine. Let's explore that. If Shift tells some poor dumb soul to dress up as God and deceive a bunch of people, and that doing so is what God actually wants, let's say the poor fool actually believes Shift is correct and does it. Is that righteous or not? The poor fool is trying to be righteous. Is he?

There's some concern also on whether God would really allow that. If God expects us to not be deceived into such nonsense then he gives everyone the intellect they need to rebuke that deception. Following this train of thought, perhaps there are no dupes who didn't simply (at some level) ignore what they knew to be right and trust Shift instead out of perhaps fear (of being called stupid perhaps) or weakness or some other less-than-righteous motivation. That's a valid answer.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #8

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:13 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm
1213 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:26 pm
I personally believe what the Bible tells. According to it, eternal life, which I think is basically the same as heaven, is for righteous.
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)

So, if person is righteous,* I believe he goes to heaven/eternal life.
* which includes killing homosexuals and owning slaves. . . . . . . . I assume you're not gay.


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Jews can do those things. Jews can genocide the Amalekites and stone hookers to death and presumably burn gay people. What the Bible says for everyone else (and Jews who have converted to Christianity) is judge not lest ye be judged, and don't cast any stones at anybody, ever, unless you're perfect.

The Old Testament says a lot of pretty sick stuff, yes, and gives permissions to do some horrible actions, but these permissions are specifically for the People of Israel and not anyone else.
Chapter and verse please. I ask because the New Testament certainly recognizes the legitimacy of slavery.


Titus 2:9-10
9 And tell this to those who are slaves: They should be willing to serve their masters at all times; they should try to please them, not argue with them; 10 they should not steal from them; and they should show their masters that they can be trusted. Then, in everything they do, they will show that the teaching of God our Savior is good.


Ephesians 6:5

Easy-to-Read Version
5 Slaves, obey your masters here on earth with fear and respect. And do this with a heart that is true, just as you obey Christ.


Colossians 3:22
Slaves, obey your human masters in everything, not just when they are watching you, like people-pleasers, but with a sincere heart, out of respect for the Lord.


1 Timothy 6:1-2
1 All those who are slaves should show full respect to their masters. Then God’s name and our teaching will not be criticized. 2 Some slaves have masters who are believers, so they are brothers. Does this mean they should show their masters any less respect? No, they should serve them even better, because they are helping believers, people they should love.


AND the illegitimacy of homosexual sex


Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Timothy 1:9-10
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,



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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #9

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 pmI ask because the New Testament certainly recognizes the legitimacy of slavery.
All I see there is the Bible telling things to Christians who are slaves, and others who are slaves. Now I fully admit that I could be wrong about this one (I'm not about the stoning hookers one; I simply apply it to gay people as well) but I don't see anything in what you quoted that Christians may own slaves. Is there a "be nice to your slaves" verse? In the New Testament? If so, okay, I'm wrong about this one. I didn't really mean to include slavery in "horrible horrible sick stuff" because it was everywhere in the ancient world, however. Still, I don't expect Jesus to endorse it, because I expect Jesus to tell his followers not to use force, and the thing that restrains a slave is ultimately force.
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 pmAND the illegitimacy of homosexual sex
I never disputed that the Bible says male homosexuality is wrong. I just said you're not to do anything about it, including judging them, so declaring it wrong is essentially meaningless.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #10

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:05 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 pmI ask because the New Testament certainly recognizes the legitimacy of slavery.
All I see there is the Bible telling things to Christians who are slaves, and others who are slaves. Now I fully admit that I could be wrong about this one (I'm not about the stoning hookers one; I simply apply it to gay people as well) but I don't see anything in what you quoted that Christians may own slaves.
In as much as the New Testament recognizes the legitimacy of slavery, it stands as the accepted custom of the society. So yes, lacking any admonition NOT to own slaves, by default Christians get to own them, just as by default they must have been allowed to do a lot of other things that weren't prohibited.

Is there a "be nice to your slaves" verse? In the New Testament? If so, okay, I'm wrong about this one.
Hold on a minute. I'm still waiting for your chapter and verse that says "these permissions are specifically for the People of Israel and not anyone else." Besides, did the Jews, god's chosen people, need to be told to treat others nicely? Hmmm. . . . . . . . . . . . . . evidently so. Doesn't say much for being chosen by god, does it?



Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:09 pmAND the illegitimacy of homosexual sex
I never disputed that the Bible says male homosexuality is wrong. I just said you're not to do anything about it, including judging them, so declaring it wrong is essentially meaningless.
In other words you stand steadfastly by the Bible's unqualified order to never judge anyone for anything.

Matthew 7:1
Judge not lest you be judged.

Just so you know, I'll be watching you for your non-judgments. ;)


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