Christianity's Biggest Problem Yet?

[POI]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

[nobspeople]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

Many christians would say something like 'humans are more important than animals' meaning, it seems, the animal suffering isn't something with which we should be concern ourselves - at least that's what I've been told. Not sure the biblical references for this, but might have something to do with having 'dominion over' animals.

[POI]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

Many christians would say something like 'humans are more important than animals' meaning, it seems, the animal suffering isn't something with which we should be concern ourselves - at least that's what I've been told. Not sure the biblical references for this, but might have something to do with having 'dominion over' animals.

Yeah, I too have heard similar arguments. Which then provokes the following comments/questions...

1. Should a Christian ever feel any empathy at all, if they were to see an animal writhing in pain in the wild?
2. Maybe Christians should never attempt to save wild animals, when they see them trapped in some precarious predicament, via from a presented natural disaster.
3. A Christian should also not be concerned if their own animal is even fed, sheltered, etc, as they are not even aware. Feeding them less, for example, will save more money to give to the church
4. If the Christian's animal is sick or injured, don't take it to the vet; as they are not even aware of their own pain/suffering.
5. And no, I do not believe the Bible mentions much of anything at all about animals. Thus, I doubt they are to experience any afterlife. Many are born, experience vast trauma, and die a painful death. Why?

[nobspeople]

Below is a 20 minute video. For the ones who opt not to watch, I'll start with the following question? (Which may then lead to many others, as this is a fairly new concept of thought for me)....

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering? Before you Christians answer, I trust you are already aware of this guy's counter points?

Many christians would say something like 'humans are more important than animals' meaning, it seems, the animal suffering isn't something with which we should be concern ourselves - at least that's what I've been told. Not sure the biblical references for this, but might have something to do with having 'dominion over' animals.

Yeah, I too have heard similar arguments. Which then provokes the following comments/questions...

1. Should a Christian ever feel any empathy at all, if they were to see an animal writhing in pain in the wild?
2. Maybe Christians should never attempt to save wild animals, when they see them trapped in some precarious predicament, via from a presented natural disaster.
3. A Christian should also not be concerned if their own animal is even fed, sheltered, etc, as they are not even aware. Feeding them less, for example, will save more money to give to the church
4. If the Christian's animal is sick or injured, don't take it to the vet; as they are not even aware of their own pain/suffering.
5. And no, I do not believe the Bible mentions much of anything at all about animals. Thus, I doubt they are to experience any afterlife. Many are born, experience vast trauma, and die a painful death. Why?

I smile when I read this because I've asked almost identical questions in the past and got a mixed bag of answers from 'yes they're god's creatures' to 'no because god cares more about us then them (then they'd quote the sparrow verse, of which I thankfully forget)'.
There, like all things 'christian', seems to be a myriad of responses to this, and other similar, questions (odd that they all claim to worship the same being but have varying degrees of different answers).
I'll be interested to see how christians respond. But, like several times in the past, there won't be much response. We shall see!

[Purple Knight]

15:12. Ah, there it is, the old "animals are just meat robots and don't really suffer" BS.

People have been saying this for ages regardless of any religiousness being mixed up in the argument. Sadly, though there is increasing opposition to it, the idea that animals don't have the same emotional range or just react to stimuli and don't experience anything humans do is still the leading doctrine in animal behaviour and related relig- *cough* I mean, sciences.

Absolute, unadulterated rubbish. Higher animals such as birds and mammals (with possible exceptions of specialised grazers) have every bit of pain awareness and emotional range we do.

[POI]

15:12. Ah, there it is, the old "animals are just meat robots and don't really suffer" BS.

People have been saying this for ages regardless of any religiousness being mixed up in the argument. Sadly, though there is increasing opposition to it, the idea that animals don't have the same emotional range or just react to stimuli and don't experience anything humans do is still the leading doctrine in animal behaviour and related relig- *cough* I mean, sciences.

Absolute, unadulterated rubbish. Higher animals such as birds and mammals (with possible exceptions of specialised grazers) have every bit of pain awareness and emotional range we do.

Well, it will be interesting to see if/when any Christians should happen respond?

[TRANSPONDER]

Aside the argument I've seen at times that 'When Adam fell he brought all Creation down with him' which means it's all sinful, which will do as an alternative to 'evolution is not nice, but it is true', human empathy is an interesting concept, especially when we recognise it not only in ourselves for animals but amongst animals themselves. And yet, we are beginning to understand that animal co -operation (the basis of our own ethics) is an evolutionary survival trait and no less so if we get a release of Dopamine to make us opt for the 'Good'. It is perhaps one of the less likeable effects of evolutionary survival -instinct that we get a release of...Something when we are driven to ignore morality and do evil, individually and collectively, in the interests of a Higher and greater Calling. Name your own.

[theophile]

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering?

The question is a fair one for Christians who insist on God's omnipotence (which is most of them). But it isn't fair for Christians who take greater inspiration from the bible, and recognize the limitations of God's power.

Also, hard to see how animal suffering is consistent with, say, Jesus' message of love. Or God's creation of animals in Gen 1 and declaring them 'good.'

If there is animal suffering under our dominion (per Gen 1) then it isn't God's fault or 'allowance' but ours.

[Tcg]

Also, hard to see how animal suffering is consistent with, say, Jesus' message of love. Or God's creation of animals in Gen 1 and declaring them 'good.'

Jesus' message of love? Like this one:

Matthew 13:40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus endorses suffering for humans that is equal to or worse than the fate of many animals. The hippie peace loving Jesus is a fantasy and we haven't even looked at Revelation yet.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

Why does YHWH allow for so much animal suffering?

The question is a fair one for Christians who insist on God's omnipotence (which is most of them). But it isn't fair for Christians who take greater inspiration from the bible, and recognize the limitations of God's power.

Also, hard to see how animal suffering is consistent with, say, Jesus' message of love. Or God's creation of animals in Gen 1 and declaring them 'good.'

If there is animal suffering under our dominion (per Gen 1) then it isn't God's fault or 'allowance' but ours.

That's the problem of Evil - which is this topic after all. Man is not to blame for natural disasters nor to blame for the ruthless way nature deals with animals, of which 90% of those who ever lived had gone extinct before man ever chipped a flint tool.

So, no, it is not at all man's fault before at least humans began changing the world, but the fact is that animals compete with each other and natural conditions, in a brutal way and it cannot all be blamed on men.

So either God could put this right, but won't, or he would but can't.

How do Christians answer that?