Imagination?

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Zzyzx
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Imagination?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?
.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: Imagination?

Post #2

Post by Realworldjack »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am .
Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?
One does not need to know about any other religion, nor if any other religion would be true, or false, in order to understand if there would be facts, evidence, and reasons to believe another religion.

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Re: Imagination?

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am .
Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?
I think it's not that simple of an answer. I think imagination plays an important part - big one even - but sometimes I think it also has to do with trying to write down what is seen and not understood. Sometimes imagination comes into play there, other times a person is honestly trying to tell what they saw as they understand the 'world' at the time.
How can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified? I'm not sure it can. At least not fully
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Imagination?

Post #4

Post by Zzyzx »

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Realworldjack wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44 am One does not need to know about any other religion . . .
Of course, just consider 'our own' propaganda and remanin willfully ignorant of others?
Realworldjack wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44 am nor if any other religion would be true, or false, in order to understand if there would be facts, evidence, and reasons to believe another religion.
What, exactly, insures that a religion is 'true'? Is it POSSIBLE that the chosen religion is false?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: Imagination?

Post #5

Post by William »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am .
Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?

It is my understanding that what we each imagine can be experienced as real and re this reality, what is imagined by humans can be made real if the material and physics allow for it.

Re the theistic notions, there is also the realm of The Mind [THE MIND] and therein what one imagines in that situation can materialize and be experienced as real.

Some experience it while still in the physical universe and learn from that, the gist of what is to be expected, once death knocks at their door

Fortunately, one cannot imagine nothing as anything other than somewhere where nothing exists. Imagine going there!

Before long, one would be imagining somthing into exisrence, just for the sheer relief of having something in which to play with/in.

I suspect that is why our own universe exists. Something to play within.

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Re: Imagination?

Post #6

Post by Realworldjack »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:16 pm .
Realworldjack wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44 am One does not need to know about any other religion . . .
Of course, just consider 'our own' propaganda and remanin willfully ignorant of others?
Realworldjack wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:44 am nor if any other religion would be true, or false, in order to understand if there would be facts, evidence, and reasons to believe another religion.
What, exactly, insures that a religion is 'true'? Is it POSSIBLE that the chosen religion is false?
Of course, just consider 'our own' propaganda and remanin willfully ignorant of others?
I did not say anything about "remaining willfully ignorant of others"? In other words, I simply made a statement of fact that "one would not have to know a thing about any other religion in order to understand and know if there would be facts, evidence, and reasons to believe another". This statement of fact does not necessitate one "remaining willfully ignorant of others". With that being said, I will be more than happy to compare Christianity to any other religion you would like, as far as the real historical facts, and evidence is concerned?
What, exactly, insures that a religion is 'true'?
Ensure, is a mighty strong word. (I am assuming you meant ensure)? However, on another thread one has informed me that atheist Richard Dawkins claims to hold a high degree of certainty in the position he has. In the same way, I am convinced one can have a high degree of certainty based upon the facts, and evidence.
Is it POSSIBLE that the chosen religion is false?
I really love the way folks seem to love to throw in these extra words with purpose. You know like, "chosen"? I can assure you that I did not "choose" to believe Christianity. In fact, if one truly understands Christianity, I cannot imagine one choosing to believe it? Who would want to believe it? But yes, Christianity could in fact be false. However, after many years here on this site my certainty continues to strengthen, as I become more, and more convinced there really is no reason to doubt. You know like, when there are those who continue to point out other religions, as if this would be any reason to doubt? Or when there are those who ask things like, is it possible Christianity could be false, as if this would be a reason to doubt?

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Re: Imagination?

Post #7

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am .
Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?
I'd say more than possible, probable.

William wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:41 pm
Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am .
Thousands of 'gods' are (and have been) fought over by humans. https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_bi ... ll_of_them

Is it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination? Is it possible or likely that some of the stories told about 'gods' are imaginary?

If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?

It is my understanding that what we each imagine can be experienced as real and re this reality, what is imagined by humans can be made real if the material and physics allow for it.

Re the theistic notions, there is also the realm of The Mind [THE MIND] and therein what one imagines in that situation can materialize and be experienced as real.

Some experience it while still in the physical universe and learn from that, the gist of what is to be expected, once death knocks at their door

Fortunately, one cannot imagine nothing as anything other than somewhere where nothing exists. Imagine going there!

Before long, one would be imagining something into existence, just for the sheer relief of having something in which to play with/in.

I suspect that is why our own universe exists. Something to play within.
The problem I'd have with the idea of reality being dependent on human imagination is that people disagree. There are many religions; there is only one science.

The conclusion is that religions and their gods are products of human imagination and what science tells us about the way the world works, is real, independent of human imagination.

Reality throws us a curve ball very often. It produces something quite unexpected. For some time, science is at a loss to explain it; instinct, for example. I don't recall that many tried to pop a god in there as an explanation because some of our instincts are such as would give a god a bad name and blaming that on Satan (or indeed Man, as a way of getting God off the hook) just brings us the problem of evil. ascribing stuff to gods always does that.

But DNA gave us the explanation of instinct, and clearly it was a real natural phenomena nothing to do with human imagination. Therefore the smart money for me is on an unthinking, unplanned, uncontrolled (other than by natural physical forces) reality, and gods have nothing to do with it.

It's true of course that human imagination, or perception, rather, dictates how we see the world. The sky is not really blue; it is just a natural physical process of the way all humans are made. We process information the same way because we are the same machine. We have different handling characteristics of course, which is why we come up with different cultures, languages, modes of dress and methods of ornament. And so do the gods we invent.

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Re: Imagination?

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 am
If within the realm of possibility or likelihood, how can the imaginary (or 'true') be identified?
If by True God we mean an intelligent Creator of the universe, He would originally at least, by definition, exist outside our physical universe. Logically, then only way to establish more than his mere existence would be by divine revelation.


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Re: Imagination?

Post #9

Post by William »

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #7]
But DNA gave us the explanation of instinct, and clearly it was a real natural phenomena nothing to do with human imagination. Therefore the smart money for me is on an unthinking, unplanned, uncontrolled (other than by natural physical forces) reality, and gods have nothing to do with it.
Betting aside, we await both the return of Jesus, or a future time where humans have developed their understanding of the universe far more completely than they currently do.

Placing bets under such circumstance seems to me to be a rather unscientific approach to the question.
Reality throws us a curve ball very often. It produces something quite unexpected. For some time, science is at a loss to explain it; instinct, for example. I don't recall that many tried to pop a god in there as an explanation because some of our instincts are such as would give a god a bad name and blaming that on Satan (or indeed Man, as a way of getting God off the hook) just brings us the problem of evil. ascribing stuff to gods always does that.
I don't recall seeing any evidence that the actions of humans prove that there is a problem of evil in which to address re the notion of mindful creation.

I have encountered truckloads of opinion re that, but no evidence.

Death will come knocking eventually and gambling on the expectation of nothing but oblivion as the preferred outcome, appears to be wishful thinking, given the evidence I am looking at.

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Re: Imagination?

Post #10

Post by Purple Knight »

Zzyzx wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:22 amIs it possible or likely that at least some of the 'gods' are products of human imagination?
In cases I'm supposed to say yes, I lean toward at least wanting to explore the no.

That would entail a god as being a special type of life form that gains existence just by being believed in.

At very least, the gods that are believed in by a generation outlast that generation, being passed on to the next. That's a sort of existence at the very least, and we see that it can in fact accomplish things. The Crusades happened, for example. That's not fiction.

At this point denial looks a little my cells denying that I exist because they are really the ones that get credit for everything I do. I mean, fair enough, but the question is whether they can do those things without the level of organisation that adds up to me, myself, and the answer is no.

Now, I can say, but I know I am conscious, and maybe fair enough, but... still... if a being has desires and wants and pursues certain outcomes, wouldn't it be silly to deny it exists?

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