If you were Satan....

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Athetotheist
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If you were Satan....

Post #1

Post by Athetotheist »

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #51

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #50
What do you think, at what point does Satan know that he will lose?
I mean: If he knows it from the start he might say to himself: "In this case why should I not be a nice little devil, and also play along with prohecy ?"
Again, that would be utter stupidity in a being who's supposed to be super-intelligent. Why do you keep beating that dead horse?

The Christian Bible states that "Satan" knows he has lost when he has "come down" among the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. So if he realized that he could nullify prophecy simply by not going along with it, that in itself would nullify what was written about him. Why would an ambitious rebel knowingly cooperate in his own destruction when he could easily avert it?

Honestly, I don't know how much more clearly I can put it.

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #52

Post by The Nice Centurion »

Athetotheist wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:00 am [Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #50
What do you think, at what point does Satan know that he will lose?
I mean: If he knows it from the start he might say to himself: "In this case why should I not be a nice little devil, and also play along with prohecy ?"
Again, that would be utter stupidity in a being who's supposed to be super-intelligent. Why do you keep beating that dead horse?

The Christian Bible states that "Satan" knows he has lost when he has "come down" among the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. So if he realized that he could nullify prophecy simply by not going along with it, that in itself would nullify what was written about him. Why would an ambitious rebel knowingly cooperate in his own destruction when he could easily avert it?
I have a plausible answer here, or better Robert Price has it! In his Book

Paperback Apocalypse: How the Christian Church Was Left Behind
Price, Robert M.

he adds one more chapter to the boring 13 books Left Behind novel series.
Here:
After the End of revelation the story continues and the heroes find out that Satan perfectly faked his defeat, and the Antichrist is still in Power.

I hope this explanation finally satyfies your hunger for wisdom a bit 😉
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again🐟

"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon❗"

"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates❗"

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #53

Post by Athetotheist »

The Nice Centurion wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:13 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:00 am [Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #50
What do you think, at what point does Satan know that he will lose?
I mean: If he knows it from the start he might say to himself: "In this case why should I not be a nice little devil, and also play along with prohecy ?"
Again, that would be utter stupidity in a being who's supposed to be super-intelligent. Why do you keep beating that dead horse?

The Christian Bible states that "Satan" knows he has lost when he has "come down" among the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. So if he realized that he could nullify prophecy simply by not going along with it, that in itself would nullify what was written about him. Why would an ambitious rebel knowingly cooperate in his own destruction when he could easily avert it?
I have a plausible answer here, or better Robert Price has it! In his Book

Paperback Apocalypse: How the Christian Church Was Left Behind
Price, Robert M.

he adds one more chapter to the boring 13 books Left Behind novel series.
Here:
After the End of revelation the story continues and the heroes find out that Satan perfectly faked his defeat, and the Antichrist is still in Power.

I hope this explanation finally satyfies your hunger for wisdom a bit 😉
From what little I've been able to find, Price wrote his amendment to the LB series as a parody. I'm not going for the comical, just trying to point out the logical problems involved with assuming that such a being as the Christian "Satan" exists.

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #54

Post by Athetotheist »

At this point I'd like to put another spin on this thread by adding a slightly different question, to come at it from another angle.

If "Satan" were to decide to nullify prophecy by simply not fulfilling the role prophesied for him, what would prevent his plan from working?

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #55

Post by The Nice Centurion »

Athetotheist wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:32 pm
The Nice Centurion wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:13 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:00 am [Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #50
What do you think, at what point does Satan know that he will lose?
I mean: If he knows it from the start he might say to himself: "In this case why should I not be a nice little devil, and also play along with prohecy ?"
Again, that would be utter stupidity in a being who's supposed to be super-intelligent. Why do you keep beating that dead horse?

The Christian Bible states that "Satan" knows he has lost when he has "come down" among the inhabitants of the earth and the sea. So if he realized that he could nullify prophecy simply by not going along with it, that in itself would nullify what was written about him. Why would an ambitious rebel knowingly cooperate in his own destruction when he could easily avert it?
I have a plausible answer here, or better Robert Price has it! In his Book

Paperback Apocalypse: How the Christian Church Was Left Behind
Price, Robert M.

he adds one more chapter to the boring 13 books Left Behind novel series.
Here:
After the End of revelation the story continues and the heroes find out that Satan perfectly faked his defeat, and the Antichrist is still in Power.

I hope this explanation finally satyfies your hunger for wisdom a bit 😉
From what little I've been able to find, Price wrote his amendment to the LB series as a parody. I'm not going for the comical, just trying to point out the logical problems involved with assuming that such a being as the Christian "Satan" exists.
It does not matter as what Price wrote his amendment.
Price is clever enough to write not senseless satyre, but something that would, logically follow revelation.
It fits perfectly with the illogicalitys revelation leaves us with and succesfully explains this supposed illogicalitys.

It is as if someone found a way how the misterys of "The Prisoner" Series of the 60ties, starring Patrick Mc Goohan, could finally find a logical explanation.

You made this OP, and I found a logical answer exactly fitting.
Once again you answered practically that you do not wish for a real answer, but for us to deign to your worldview.
This reminds me of Christians who ask questions like: "Give me undeniable proof of Evolution."
Of course hard evidence for evolution is the absolute least they want to hear.
They want instead you to become a christian.

Such a trick is not an earnest thing to do!
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again🐟

"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon❗"

"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates❗"

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #56

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #55
You made this OP, and I found a logical answer exactly fitting.
Once again you answered practically that you do not wish for a real answer, but for us to deign to your worldview.
This reminds me of Christians who ask questions like: "Give me undeniable proof of Evolution."
Of course hard evidence for evolution is the absolute least they want to hear.
They want instead you to become a christian.
That seems to be what you want of me. I've suggested a way for "Satan" to escape the prophetic box and you seem desperate to cram him back into it.

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #57

Post by The Nice Centurion »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:12 am I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan.
But I doubt you ARE Satan, I also doubt you are able to read his mind.
Since that is so, we have to take into account several problems you failed to consider.

First we should try solving the question: Is it possible at all for Satan to scrap the antichrist plan ? And so making prophecys a lie ? So they could no longer count as prophecys, but false godly Information ?

If we want to play "Marvel What If Story" with christian mythology, we also should see how Joe Quesada ... err I mean ,,, christian theology solves our riddle.

Years ago I asked a Catholic priest if Satan is able to repent and the answer was that according to Catholic theology Satan cannot stray from his path, cause beings like him made their decisions in another time dimension.

Wishy-washy, I know. But a wishy-washy that comes from (self-styled) Satan-experts.

This is only a taste to give you a feeling about that an answer to your OP is far more complicated than you suggest in your OP.
Last edited by The Nice Centurion on Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again🐟

"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon❗"

"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates❗"

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #58

Post by Athetotheist »

The Nice Centurion wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:49 am
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:12 am I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan.
But I doubt you ARE Satan, I also doubt you are able to read his mind.
Since that is so, we have to take into account severral problems you failed to consider.

First we should try solving the question: Is it possible at all for Satan to scrap the antichrist plan ? And so making prophecys a lie ? So they could no longer count as prophecys, but false godly Information ?

If we want to play "Marvel What If Story" with christian mythology, we also should see how Joe Quesada ... err I mean ,,, christian theology solves our riddle.

Years ago I asked a Catholic priest if Satan is able to repent and the answer was that according to Catholic theology Satan cannot stray from his path, cause beings like him made their decisions in another time dimension.

Wishy-washy, I know. But a wishy-washy that comes from (self-styled) Satan-experts.

This is only a taste to give you a feeling about that an answer to your OP is far more complicated than you suggest in your OP.
If you're suggesting that I can't read "Satan's" mind because he exists in a different "time dimension" rather than because he doesn't exist at all, then you're talking like an apologist.

The priest seems to have been cheating by having "Satan" exist in the past when he made his decision to rebel and in the future when the consequences of his rebellion come about, but not in the present. If "Satan" exists in the present, then any "time dimension" he inhabits must include the present. Therefore, why couldn't he make decisions in the present?

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #59

Post by The Nice Centurion »

Athetotheist wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:59 am
The Nice Centurion wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:49 am
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:12 am I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan.
But I doubt you ARE Satan, I also doubt you are able to read his mind.
Since that is so, we have to take into account severral problems you failed to consider.

First we should try solving the question: Is it possible at all for Satan to scrap the antichrist plan ? And so making prophecys a lie ? So they could no longer count as prophecys, but false godly Information ?

If we want to play "Marvel What If Story" with christian mythology, we also should see how Joe Quesada ... err I mean ,,, christian theology solves our riddle.

Years ago I asked a Catholic priest if Satan is able to repent and the answer was that according to Catholic theology Satan cannot stray from his path, cause beings like him made their decisions in another time dimension.

Wishy-washy, I know. But a wishy-washy that comes from (self-styled) Satan-experts.

This is only a taste to give you a feeling about that an answer to your OP is far more complicated than you suggest in your OP.
If you're suggesting that I can't read "Satan's" mind because he exists in a different "time dimension" rather than because he doesn't exist at all, then you're talking like an apologist.

The priest seems to have been cheating by having "Satan" exist in the past when he made his decision to rebel and in the future when the consequences of his rebellion come about, but not in the present. If "Satan" exists in the present, then any "time dimension" he inhabits must include the present. Therefore, why couldn't he make decisions in the present?
I did not want to suggest such a thing, but wanted to give an example of how many complications come with the want to find a possible answer to your OP.

Another complication: christian mythology builds on the presupposition that biblical prophecy never falls.

Satan acting not "by the book" would not only horribly damage christian mythology, but it would render biblical prophecys into no real prophecys. Has Satans adversary built somehow a failsafe into the whole thing, or does he sit in awe, prepared to call off the whole second coming in the case Satan does not do everything "by the book" ?

In fact here we could have unearthed the answer for another christian riddle : Why does the Trinity wait so long to pull through the relevation-thing ?
For all we know ; isnt it possible that Satan already tried several times to win Armageddon without fullfilling Antichrist and other too obvios prophecys - But each time the Trinity made a clear vote that the second coming is to be called off ?
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again🐟

"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon❗"

"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates❗"

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Re: If you were Satan....

Post #60

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #59
You say that you
wanted to give an example of how many complications come with the want to find a possible answer to your OP.
.....but you still seem to be trying to come up with an answer.....
For all we know ; isnt it possible that Satan already tried several times to win Armageddon without fullfilling Antichrist and other too obvios prophecys - But each time the Trinity made a clear vote that the second coming is to be called off ?
Without an antichrist, there won't be an Armageddon. And if the second coming were called off, that's all "Satan" would need.


How many straws are you going to grasp at?

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