The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

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Diogenes
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The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

Question for debate, "Is the god of the Bible omniscient?"
According to Genesis it is obvious he is not omniscient... or he must be an idiot.
So God created man in his own image....
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
. . . .
And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.
__ Genesis, chaptesr 1 and 6

Apparently this great and powerful god did not see this coming. And then the giant, imaginary idiot decides he should kill ALL the animals, because ONE of them, just one, 'man,' was corrupt.
So this guy is not only not omniscient, he is unfair.
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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

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Post by Miles »

.

I've always regarded Genesis 6:6 as one of several times in the Bible where god admits he makes mistakes. That he's far from perfect.

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:18 am ...
So God created man in his own image....
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
. . . .
And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.
__ Genesis, chaptesr 1 and 6

Apparently this great and powerful god did not see this coming. And then the giant, imaginary idiot decides he should kill ALL the animals, because ONE of them, just one, 'man,' was corrupt.
So this guy is not only not omniscient, he is unfair.
I think what you say is wrong in many ways. Saying something was good and being sorry later doesn't mean person didn't know what is coming. It is possible that everything was good as God says. Obviously that everything didn't remain good means there was freedom. Who would think freedom is not good, I think only tyrannical fascists. Unfortunately freedom makes it possible that evil is chosen. And in that case I think it is understandable that person is sad (sorry), if the creations choose poorly.

Where do you get the idea that "...he should kill ALL the animals, because ONE of them, just one, 'man,' was corrupt..."? That is not what the Bible tells.

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

Absolutely no. If God was omniscient he would have known he would have to destroy man before he even created him. If he knew he was going to have kill everyone but Noah and family and repented afterwards, surely he's skip Adam and sinful man and start with Noah. Then he wouldn't need to destroy all the animals, talong with man, and the critters didn't disobey.

We haven't even got onto Eden and God walking through the forest calling out to Adam 'Come out, wherever you are'. Not to mention a scenario that looks totally set up to get Adam to sin. Again, omniscient, he's know that was going to happen before he even started creating.

There has been at least one apologist here who adopted the apologetic that God doesn't know what is going to happen. He could but deliberately chose to not know it so the unworkable Genesis story would work.

It doesn't work, makes no sense and is clearly mythological. And borrowed mythology, too. Can you blame us skeptics and unbelievers for not believing a word of it?

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

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Post by Miles »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 am
There has been at least one apologist here who adopted the apologetic that God doesn't know what is going to happen. He could but deliberately chose to not know it so the unworkable Genesis story would work.
And to deliberately choose what not to know would require one to actually know that "what."

Just my 2¢


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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #6

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Miles wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:13 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 am
There has been at least one apologist here who adopted the apologetic that God doesn't know what is going to happen. He could but deliberately chose to not know it so the unworkable Genesis story would work.
And to deliberately choose what not to know would require one to actually know that "what."

Just my 2¢


.
Yes. Of course an apologist can say that God can do this. But it's all a bit unbelievable. Why would God make a plan that wasn't planned? Why would a God that knew what it was doing act it out like he had no idea what he is doing. Apologist denial aside I'm going to stick with 'It looks like there is no god doing anything'. There is no real case for believing it.

And that's really it. It may not convince the believers, but it's surely good enough for any doubters who are not content with just one dimensional Bible -propaganda.

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #7

Post by theophile »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:18 am Question for debate, "Is the god of the Bible omniscient?"
According to Genesis it is obvious he is not omniscient... or he must be an idiot.
So God created man in his own image....
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
. . . .
And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.
__ Genesis, chaptesr 1 and 6

Apparently this great and powerful god did not see this coming. And then the giant, imaginary idiot decides he should kill ALL the animals, because ONE of them, just one, 'man,' was corrupt.
So this guy is not only not omniscient, he is unfair.
Clearly God is not omniscient. At least not in the popular sense of knowing every little thing that has happened, or that's ever going to happen. Frankly, we should dispel such notions and rethink the nature of God's knowledge.

Consider omnipotence as a parallel. There's good reason to believe that God is not omnipotent either in the classic sense of being able to do all things. That's all based on a Greek notion of perfection. Strongest biblical evidence for such a view is God's name El-Shaddai, which is commonly translated as Almighty, but whose original meaning is unclear.

A better view (if you want my 2 cents) is that God's knowledge (and power) can change over time. God can go from being practically powerless to all-powerful. From knowing nothing to having all knowledge. Such aspects of God are dependent on the degree that we have committed ourselves -- including our knowledge and power -- to God. The whole point being for all knowledge and power to eventually be God's (so that as Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 15, "God may be all in all").

As our level of commitment changes over time, i.e., as more things depart from God or join with God (and effectively become God as part of, say, elohim or the body of Christ), so too God's power and knowledge will diminish or rise across time.

But even then, 'all knowledge' is not the same as 'knowing everything'. It always has the upper bound of current collective knowledge, which like our commitment also changes over time. Again, just my 2 cents if you want to go into more nuanced theologies versus just beating up strawman views.

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #8

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 am Absolutely no. If God was omniscient he would have known he would have to destroy man before he even created him. If he knew he was going to have kill everyone but Noah and family and repented afterwards, surely he's skip Adam and sinful man and start with Noah. Then he wouldn't need to destroy all the animals, talong with man, and the critters didn't disobey.
You basically say, short life is worthless, God should not give a chance for evil people, even if it would be just a short life. I think that is not good.
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 amWe haven't even got onto Eden and God walking through the forest calling out to Adam 'Come out, wherever you are'. Not to mention a scenario that looks totally set up to get Adam to sin. Again, omniscient, he's know that was going to happen before he even started creating.
...
Does someone really think God asked it next to them because He didn't know where they were?

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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #9

Post by Diogenes »

1213 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:09 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:16 am Absolutely no. If God was omniscient he would have known he would have to destroy man before he even created him. If he knew he was going to have kill everyone but Noah and family and repented afterwards, surely he's skip Adam and sinful man and start with Noah. Then he wouldn't need to destroy all the animals, talong with man, and the critters didn't disobey.
You basically say, short life is worthless, God should not give a chance for evil people, even if it would be just a short life. I think that is not good.
:?: I'm unclear on how you got that from TRANSPONDER'S post.
OTOH, it is easy to get that idea from the Bible:
Yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
James 4:14
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Re: The God of the Bible is Not Omniscient

Post #10

Post by Diogenes »

theophile wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:53 am Clearly God is not omniscient. At least not in the popular sense of knowing every little thing that has happened, or that's ever going to happen. ... just beating up strawman views.
"Srawman views? Christians differ on what god's omniscience is. Even when I was a Christian I did not believe in total omniscience of God, but absolute omniscience is a classic Christian view, including that of Thomas Aquinas who relied on Biblical texts.
Omniscience is the property of having complete or maximal knowledge. Along with omnipotence and perfect goodness, it is usually taken to be one of the central divine attributes....
Another source is provided by the requirements of formulating one or another theological doctrine. For example, the doctrine of divine providence holds that God has a plan for the world according to which all things are in his care and work out according to his good will. As Flint puts it,

"to see God as provident is to see him as knowingly and lovingly directing each and every event involving each and every creature toward the ends he has ordained for them."
....
A third motivation for including omniscience among the divine attributes derives from “perfect being theology”. Perfect being theology appeals to St. Anselm, who held that God is that than which nothing greater can be thought (Proslogion, c.1077)./quote]
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/omniscience/

"Omniscience means that he is the ultimate criterion of truth and falsity, so that his ideas are always true."
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essa ... sence-god/

More importantly, the OP cites a specific example of the fact God is not even relatively omniscient, despite the many claims of his perfection in prophesy. He didn't even get it right when he claimed man was "good" then backtracked and said he was evil, then drowned him along with the kittens (what did they do wrong? Climb the drapes?)
These are obvious myths and many Christians, wisely do not take them literally, but those who do have an impossible task to reconcile all this.

And then there are those who believe in 'predestination' and even claim there is an exact number of the 'elect' and there is nothing to be done about it because of God's perfect foreknowledge.
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