Zzyzx wrote:
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In a current thread RWJ mentions reasons (in addition to the Internte) for decline of Christianity in the US.
Realworldjack wrote:
I understand, and absolutely agree, that Christianity is on the decline in the U.S. You throw out the internet as a possible reason, which could have an impact. I have my own reasons, and will be glad to discuss upon request.
Let's explore the topic. What reasons can be identified to account for the decline?
Thanks, Zzyzx for this OP. Well, it seems as if my thunder has been taken away, by a couple of other posters here. First, there is 1213 where he, or she says,
1213 wrote:I think it certainly has not helped that only very few are really teaching what Jesus or the Bible tells.
While I agree with what is said above, I do not believe I would have said it in that way.
First, there may be a difference between a decline in Christianity, as opposed to a decline in Church attendance. As an example, myself, my family, (excluding my son, will explain in a moment), and a group of friends, no longer attend Church, but we adhere to Christianity.
The reason for this is, we cannot find a Church willing too actually teach, and adhere to what they claim to believe. My son continues to attend, although he has, and acknowledges, the same problems.
It seems most Churches are more concerned with keeping attendance up, even if this means there must be some compromising concerning doctrine.
Moving on, I also agree somewhat with "wiploc" where he says,
wiploc wrote:And of course, since Christianity has no logical appeal, once you destroy the emotional appeal, there's nothing left.
This is really "good stuff" here, and it would be great to know if "wiploc" was at one time a Christian, like many other of the members of this site? Of course, I disagree with "wiploc" when he says, "Christianity has no logical appeal", but I absolutely agree with "wiploc" in that if, and when Churches focus solely upon appealing to the emotions, when this is exposed, many can see right through it, and rightly reject it.
This is the case with many, many, Churches, if not the overwhelming majority. In other words, it is hard work, and difficult to actually read, understand, and be able to explain, and expound upon Christianity, in order to appeal to the mind. It is far easier to skip this process, and rather simply appeal to the emotions.
With this being the case, most Churches opt for the easiest route, and simply appeal to the emotions, leaving the mind completely behind. This is a process that began a long time ago, and I believe it can be traced back to what has been called, "The Second Great Awakening", and Charles Finney" was the "mastermind" behind all of this.
I myself was exposed to this sort of thing as a child. I grew up believing that God spoke to us through our emotions, and when I would become emotional, this was some sort of sign that God was speaking to me. Of course, it was impossible to determine what He may actually be saying, all I knew was I was emotional, and was told that it was God working in my life.
When I became older, and my emotional state changed, in other words, I no longer had the same emotions, I simply drifted away form Church, not thinking very much about it at all.
As I have said in the past, I did not begin to think about it at all again until I began to have children, and the only reason then was, I knew they would be exposed to it in some sort of way. Therefore, I wanted to be able to tell them something substantial about Christianity one way, or the other.
It was through this process of engaging the mind, that I have become convinced. This of course is another reason why it is so difficult to find a Church, because it is extremely difficult to find a Church that will actually engage the mind.
Again, I want to stress, how much easier it is, to leave the hard work of engaging the mind behind, and simply attempt to enthuse people, by appealing to the emotion.
When this occurs, and real life situations come knocking at your door, there are many who simply suppress the questions that may come up in their mind, because again, it would be hard work to actually go through the process of thinking through these things, and in doing so, one could run the risk of having to admit that their world view was completely skewed. So then, this is why so many, simply plow on, ignoring, or coming up with all sort of lame excuses that make no sense.
However, there are many other former Christians, who readily admit to not using their minds, to arrive to their convictions in becoming a Christian. Now all of the sudden, they want us to believe, that they have actually began to use their mind, and it is this thinking process that has allowed them now to reject Christianity. I am not so convinced about this!
First of all, it is difficult for me to believe that there are those who would make such a life decision, without the use of the mind? Remember, I was brought up as a Christian, but by the age of nineteen I had drifted away from the Church. Not because I had engaged the mind as of yet, but rather because my mind was never engaged, and at that point I saw no need, and had no interest. When I found a reason, and actually dug in to engage the mind, this is when, after many months, that turned into years, that I became convinced.
My point in all of this is to say, I am not so sure, that many of those who claimed to have rejected Christianity, by engaging the mind, have actually done so. Lets think about this.
If they were exposed to the same form of Christianity that I, and many others were, where the mind is not engaged, but rather the emotions, (and the overwhelming majority were), then this means they were exposed to a very reckless theology.
With this being the case, if you were to actually engage the mind, it would not be very difficult at all to see through the, MESS. (For the lack of being permitted here on this site to use the word I would really like to use). However, let us remember that these folks, who were once former Christians, admit freely that they were sucked into all of this, and they never engaged the mind in the process of arriving to the conclusion that Christianity was true.
As I said, now they want us to believe that they have actually began to engage the mind, and it is this "mind engagement" that has lead them away from Christianity. But, is this really the case? Well, as I said, "I have serious doubts."
I believe, it is very possible that these folks did not as they admit, use the mind when arriving to the conclusion that Christianity was true. It has been my experience, that many of the people who do not use the mind in making such major decisions, very seldom do, even when they change their mind.
With this being the case, it is very possible that these folks, have not really began to engage the mind, but are rather simply reacting to an experience they have had with Christianity, as far as what they have been taught. In other words, they more than likely had things NOT work out like they thought they should have, based on what they were taught, or how they read the Bible, and it is because of these situations that they have now rejected Christianity.
More than likely, it has never crossed their mind, to actually think through what they were taught, or how they were reading the Bible, in order to determine if what they believed, was actually taught in the Bible.
A great example of this is a member of this very site, whom I will not mention the name but, this member actually claims to have made the decision to drop out of collage, and talked a girl into the same thing, who became his wife I believe, all based upon one passage in the Bible where it says, "go into all the world and preach the gospel."
So then, based on this simple reading of the text, this member claims to have headed off to the missions fields, believing that all would be taken care of by God, because he was doing as he should. However, when things do not work out as they should, does this member actually begin to think? Does it ever at all cross his mind that he may in fact have been wrong concerning the way in which he understood the text? OF COURSE NOT! It could not have possibly been him that was wrong, or in error, it must, and has to be the Bible that is false, wrong, and in error.
You see, it does not take a whole lot of thinking at all to determine that this command, was not at all intended for, ALL. Not only by reading the text in its correct context, by also by reading the rest of the New Testament, which would include the letters of Paul.
So then, if this passage was intended for all, in other words, we all as Christians should be on the mission field, then why would Paul have planted the many Churches, writing letters to them, concerning how they should live their life where they are. Why would he not be scolding them, for NOT being on the mission field?
On top of this, Paul clearly explains in his letters, that not all of us have the same talents, and abilities, and that we should not all be attempting to have the same gifts.
So then, as you can clearly see, it does not take a whole lot of thinking at all, to determine this passage could not have possibly been intended for all. And yet, we have someone who made a major life decision based upon his faulty reading, and now wants us to believe he rejected Christianity because he began to think?
When I brought the above up to this member, his response back to me was, "it is much too late for me." Now, does that sound like someone who is thinking? It sounds to me like someone, who has given up on thinking. In other words, it sounds to me as if he is saying, "I have already made up my mind, so there is no need in thinking through the possibilities."
So then, I am not really sold on the fact that there are those who actually admit to, NOT using the mind, and basically just assumed Christianity was true, but they are now using the mind, and have rejected it, because those who tend to make such decisions without the mind, continue to do just that. In other words, simply because one changes their mind, does not necessarily entail, the engaging of the mind!
So then, while I acknowledge, and agree that "Christianity is on the decline in the U.S." I am not convinced that it is because people have really began to think through the process themselves. Rather, it is more than likely the case, that they continue to leave the mind behind, and just as they assumed Christianity was true, because they simply believed what they were told by others, they are now simply transferring this same mind set to the other side of the fence.
Now, this is my opinion, but I believe it is an educated opinion, and one of the reasons I am becoming more, and more convinced of this position is my experience here on this site.
You see, the example of the member that I used above, is simply one of many. I have been on this site for some 3 years now, and I have not heard an argument as of yet, that I have not thought through thoroughly myself.
It is also true that many of these former Christians continue to hang on to their faulty understanding of Christianity that they had when they were Christians, just like the example above where the member used the command to, "go into all the world and preach the Gospel." When these faulty views are brought to their attention, they refuse to believe that they are misunderstanding what is being said, even though the evidence is overwhelmingly against them, just as the example above! In other words, it can be clearly demonstrated that this passage was not intended for all, and yet there are those who refuse to acknowledge this, in the face of the evidence, because it clearly demonstrates that they are wrong!
So then, when things do not work out as they thought they should, or promises are not kept, that were never made in the Bible, instead of actually thinking through the process, in order to determine if they may have had a faulty understanding, they simply jump ship.
Now that they are no longer a Christian, it is not as though they are now thinking for themselves, rather it is more than likely the case, that they continue to take the word of others, and you may be correct that the internet is one of the places, to infect the mind. Now, I believe the internet in a wonderful tool, and I am thankful for it, but I certainly do not believe everything I read, simply because it is on the internet.
My position is, and has always been, reason can be used to arrive to the conclusion that Christianity is false. On the other hand, I am convinced reason can be used to arrive to the conclusion that Christianity is true. The problem is, there are those on both sides of the fence who believe that they are the only reasonable ones, and therefore, reason could not possibly be used to arrive at a different conclusion than the one they happen to hold.
So then, although reason can be used to arrive to either side of the equation, this does not necessarily mean, that everyone uses reason to arrive to the conclusion they hold. I will agree whole heartedly that there are MANY, MANY, Christians who have not used the mind to arrive to the conclusions they hold. Could it be that there may in fact be many, who have rejected Christianity in the same boat as well? Or is this impossible, and all those who have rejected Christianity have done so on a reasonable basis?
