Mis-information

[nobspeople]

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?
Do you think god would allow the devil to do such a thing?

[JehovahsWitness]

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?

I think the Devil is indeed the Master of "misinformation" (see John 8:44) but I dont believe he necessarily plants misleading physical clues so much as the present world system (which is I believe ultimately under his (Satan's) control) is dominated in our modern age by a tendency to misinterpret or misunderstand existing data when it comes to the origin and development of life on earth.





JW

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[nobspeople]

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?
Do you think god would allow the devil to do such a thing?

In some versions of this argument I've heard the claim that God himself planted these as a test for people of faith. To test for example whether they will accept the strong evidence for evolution or steadfastly believe that God created the "kinds." If we are to assume that God is honest, I can't imagine either explanation as valid. Of course if we are to accept the book of Job as a true account, God allowed Satan to do some awfully nasty things.


Tcg

I've been told the same things.
It seems, according to some, god loves to play games. Which is very unbecoming of such a creature IMO. But, then again, games is what many of its followers seem to like to do so maybe there's some truth in that?

[nobspeople]

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?

I think the Devil is indeed the Master of "misinformation" (see John 8:44) but" (which is I believe ultimately under his (Satan's) control) is dominated in our modern age by a tendenance to misinterpret or misunderstand existing data when it comes to the origin and development of life on earth.





JW

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Did God hide evidence of the biblical global flood?
viewtopic.php?p=1048442#p1048442

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EVOLUTION, BIBLE HISTORY and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

tendenanc(y) to misinterpret or misunderstand existing data when it comes to the origin and development of life on earth.

Which some believers claim is due to influence of the devil itself. So, if they're right, contradicts your claim of " I dont believe he necessarily plants misleading physical clues so much as the present world system" (necessarily being the key word here0.

[TRANSPONDER]

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?

I think the Devil is indeed the Master of "misinformation" (see John 8:44) but I dont believe he necessarily plants misleading physical clues so much as the present world system (which is I believe ultimately under his (Satan's) control) is dominated in our modern age by a tendency to misinterpret or misunderstand existing data when it comes to the origin and development of life on earth.





JW

RELATED POSTS

Did God hide evidence of the biblical global flood?
viewtopic.php?p=1048442#p1048442

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EVOLUTION, BIBLE HISTORY and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

That would depend, would it not, upon who is doing the misunderstanding and misinterpreting of the Data. These days it seem to be the Bible -believers and it is science that has to correct their misunderstanding. Not that they listen, half the time. After all who is going to even look at transitional fossils when their apologetics websites have told them there aren't any?

Incidentally, not that you would dream of using this apologetic, but I've heard it.

'Transitional fossils prove nothing. It just means that you now have Two gaps that need two transitionals'.

No. The intermediate stage between two formations is evidence of a transition. Let me give an analogy in archaeology. You are tracing the foundations of two walls of a building. Then in the middle of the floor level you find a metre of wall. This is evidence that a cross -wall was there and anyone who denied it on the grounds that the rest of the wall was robbed away would get some very odd looks, if not laughter.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I've heard some believers say things like fossils, dinosaurs, vestigial leg bones in whales, and the like that comes up in science is the devil planting misinformation to prevent people from believing in the bible, god et al.
What are your thought?

As if there is any need whatsoever for the Adversary to plant dinosaur bones (etc), in order to plant misinformation and confusion among people, lol! Just look at the many religions and sects ("daughters") in the world, the confusion, the misinformation and lies and corruption, etc. That would still exist without fossils, dinosaur bones, vestigial leg bones in whales and the like.


Physical evidence is not the problem. I think 1213 is correct when he says that how the evidence is interpreted, that is the problem. Human error is a real thing. In science, in religion, in medicine, in every area. The evidence is the evidence; how man interprets that evidence is where error comes in; the conclusions that man draws. Especially since man draws conclusions while having only some puzzle pieces, and not all of them.


In that vein, I cannot quite agree with the saying (from the pic above):

"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted the data."

Or men have misinterpreted the data from the bible. (and the data could also be incorrect, mishandled; or due to translation errors; erring pen of the scribes)


Regardless, science/actual evidence and God will not be in conflict. The problem is man's (mis)understanding of one or the other (or both).



Peace again to you.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to tam in post #15]

The problem is man's (mis)understanding of one or the other (or both).

Even in science, many times, it's about data interpretation.
But I think that goes all ways.

How often do we see christians arguing over the meaning of this verse or that? Who go to hell and who doesn't? And when? And how many?
We see it on this very site.

So, while it does go without saying data can be misunderstood (that's the human condition - no one's perfect). The problem with misunderstanding the bible vs. science (for example) is (according to christians) more than academic - it's eternal.

I would think we'd see more agreement within christiainity that we currently do if god is real, christians are 'in contact' (by whatever means each sext decides) with god and are all in the same 'spirit'.
If believers believe the writers of the bible had some sort of 'communion' with god to write his words, why can't these same believers today have the same connection?
But alas, that's not what happens.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Tcg in post #8]

I think that you were trying to say that the argument is not really a straw man, but your evidence seems to support that this argument is in fact a straw man.

You sited three sources. The first one does NOT make the same argument as this thread. The second one is a non-Christian accusing believers of holding this position. The final one is at least accurately on topic, but it is from an anonymous poster on an extremely obscure website. That is hardly a reliable source and certainly should not be viewed a common approach among Christians.

This strongly suggests that, for the most part, this argument is a straw man.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #15]

The problem is man's (mis)understanding of one or the other (or both).

Even in science, many times, it's about data interpretation.
But I think that goes all ways.

How often do we see christians arguing over the meaning of this verse or that? Who go to hell and who doesn't? And when? And how many?
We see it on this very site.

Exactly!

Planted dinosaur bones are not needed.

So, while it does go without saying data can be misunderstood (that's the human condition - no one's perfect). The problem with misunderstanding the bible vs. science (for example) is (according to christians) more than academic - it's eternal.

Sure, okay.

I would think we'd see more agreement within christiainity that we currently do if god is real, christians are 'in contact' (by whatever means each sext decides) with god and are all in the same 'spirit'.

That's assuming "Christianity" (the religion) is from God, that all (even most) who claim to be Christians truly are Christian. But that is not the case. MANY will say to Christ "Lord, Lord", whom He NEVER knew.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

If believers believe the writers of the bible had some sort of 'communion' with god to write his words, why can't these same believers today have the same connection?

We can. Christ said Himself - and it is even recorded in that book - that His sheep would listen to His voice. That He calls His sheep by name. The examples are there as well of Him continuing to teach and speak to and lead His sheep.

But there are not many people who believe Him, truly, or even that He is truly alive and capable of leading and teaching and training His sheep, Himself.



Peace again to you.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to tam in post #18]

That's assuming "Christianity" (the religion) is from God, that all (even most) who claim to be Christians truly are Christian. But that is not the case.

Seems likely, though it's not my job or care if they are or aren't. That's up to them.

Christ said Himself - and it is even recorded in that book - that His sheep would listen to His voice.

Stated as a fact, that's wrong. Why? Someone said christ said that. You need faith (not facts) to support that claim that he said anything. So no, you really can't and know for sure. You can hope but that's about the best you can do. You can't be faulted for that, though, when that's all you have. Just be self aware.
I always laugh to myself (a few times even out loud), even when I was a christian, when someone uses the bible to prove the bible true, without even seeming to admit it's, at best, circular reasoning: the bible says the bibles is true so I believe it's true because it says.
Is there anything more...special... than that (though people surprise me almost every day so... here's hoping something will come along some time and take that trophy from using the bible to say the bible is true)?

But there are not many people who believe Him, truly, or even that He is truly alive and capable of leading and teaching and training His sheep, Himself.

Not many? I'd bet there are simply a 'handful' throughout history, when it comes right down to it. Thus far, I've not met many in person or online, based on their actions and (online at least) their words.

[1213]

...There are so many of these, like the heart is the centre of thought and emotion, when it is the brain. Even now, people say 'written on my heart..' when you translate that to mean 'In my brain'. ...

Also scriptures can be misunderstood and misinterpreted. "Heart" can mean the innermost, not necessary the organ.