The capability to sin

[Willum]

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?
Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

[Willum]

So we need to assume some semblance of that Christian god:

That it is all part of its plan… vaguely.

Scope 1. Would be “sinless.”
Scope 2. Would include sin.

This god is allegedly capable of planning for both.

I recognize you were probably looking for a better answer, but that’s the necessary assumption.
It is of course open to be challenged, but that is as far as I considered for the topic.

[Miles]

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?

As freewillers would have it, there's plenty of stuff, such as ham on rye or ham on whole wheat, fly or take the train, condom or no condom, etc. . . . . .

Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Assuming there's such a thing as god, why would this be necessarily so? AND, what is living (in) God’s will, anyway?

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

Not only dubious, but ridiculous as well.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

Rye or whole wheat?

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

In as much as we live live without free will as it is, I don't think I'd miss not living in god's will.



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[theophile]

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?
Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

This seems to assume everything is in God's control and that freewill is a gift. I think the first is wrong (if you want to go there), but the second has merit, even though I don't think it is explicit in the bible that God gives us freewill..

I would assume if it was given it was when we were made in the image of God, in the beginning. Which raises your question of 'why.'

I don't think the answer is sin, or the capability to sin as you put it, but rather the opposite. The capability to do good. A programmed machine can fulfill a purpose but it cannot do good (just as it cannot sin).

[Goat]

[Replying to Goat in post #2]

Thank you for the useless reply.
Yes I can show freewill.

I had many options to reply to your comment, most were more disparaging than this one, and reflect freewill. I can certainly post others, iaw freewill - or not.
One was to ignore it, as perhaps I should.

As I write I am also free to list the options and roll a die to determine which I use.

Now, if we could just rid ourselves of such erroneous comments, we might be able to make progress on the topic itself.

How can you show it is actually free will, and not just the illusion of free will? How can you test that? Could you actually chosen any of the other options, or was your response predetermined , and you didn't know that?

Describe the method logy you used to separate free will from the allusion of free will.

[JoeyKnothead]

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?
Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

Considering none can show they know they mind of a god they can't show exists to have him one, the concept of sin is clearly the effort of some holier-than-thou to scare folks into their personal, puritanical brand of morality.

Dang any god who'd sit in judgement of me, who never bothered to sit on the porch there, and discuss it first.

[brunumb]

A programmed machine can fulfill a purpose but it cannot do good (just as it cannot sin).

Surely that would depend on the program.

[William]

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?

Yes. Not to sin.

Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Yes. Either way, all exist because of this.

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

What free will accomplishes is not necessarily dubious.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

Yes. Creativity.

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

Yes. Especially if coming from a place of having experienced free will.

[theophile]

A programmed machine can fulfill a purpose but it cannot do good (just as it cannot sin).

Surely that would depend on the program.

I don't think our AI capabilities are quite there yet. But when they are, then we would have become like God, and created another with freewill. No different from us in that respect.

[Willum]

[Replying to Goat in post #14]

I’m satisfied that it’s true. I can think of no contrary evidence, and I have no interest in making your objection for you.
You would need to come up with a reason there isn’t freewill.
I can’t think of any,

Now, unless you can contribute to the topic, use your freewill, to comment elsewhere.

[Willum]

[Replying to William in post #17]

I can’t answer these comments within scope of the site.
But that seems fair as your didn’t post comments that allowed discussion or debate.