Why????

[POI]

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself? If the Christian God is true, He is either pleased, or at least content, with the publication of the Bible.

Many will argue the Bible is not inerrant. Many may also argue context, when reading. Others might argue it is literal, and the perfect word of God. How do we really know what Jesus did and did not say, being He bothered not to write/preserve any of it Himself? Etc... Regardless of one's position on the matter, I have to ask, why??? Meaning.....

For Debate:

1. Why didn't God/Jesus write the final canon Himself, and also preserve it in a way for which it could not later be completely corrupted?
2. How could we know it was from an actual divine source, you ask? Well, it could have been written/preserved in a way in which humans could not do at the time, or even now. Thus, at best, I guess skeptics could still argue it came from aliens/other. But certainly not from earthly men ALONE

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #179]

Namaskaram POI

I am just a human being who thinks there is life after death and reincarnation

Again, I'm here to debate Christians. Thanks for your time.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to POI in post #181]

Namaskaram POI

Christ is my brother and someone to follow Can it get more Christian Do I have to believe in Adam and Eve and the rest of the stories? I have shown you what Christianity is all about Why do you have a problem with me being Krishna? I hope you love music and good stories...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71huh17NqaI



Your friend forever

Waterfall

[Eloi]

The Bible shows an important issue that was in question when God created our first parents: an angel who went rogue led them away from God by hinting that He was trying to take away something they should receive and have without His permission. Since this matter was very serious, God allowed humans to govern themselves under the invisible hand of the one who led them astray.

If God acted ahead of time, the matter would not be clear: we cannot live without the guidance of the heavenly Father who gave us life. Until that matter is fully cleared up, the world will continue to march to ruin as it has been until now... At the end of the matter, everything that went wrong along the way will be readjusted, and the rebels eliminated, having shown that they should never have made enemies of our Creator.

[Purple Knight]

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself?

The best case is that you're not supposed to be certain. If you really, actually believed you'd get rewarded for being a good person, you wouldn't be doing it for the right reason.

I argue that most people don't believe their religion, and if the religion happens to be true, that part's intended.

[Eloi]

How many people would be really willing to accept God if He somehow let them know that He exists?

Jesus was killed by the Jews not caring that he had done many mighty works in front of them.

PS: The Jews have never denied the recorded miracles of Jesus.

[POI]

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself?

The best case is that you're not supposed to be certain. If you really, actually believed you'd get rewarded for being a good person, you wouldn't be doing it for the right reason.

I argue that most people don't believe their religion, and if the religion happens to be true, that part's intended.

So basically, in a nutshell, the Christian God wants people to come to him by way of faith. Hence, he purposefully made the Bible sketchy. Got it

[POI]

How many people would be really willing to accept God if He somehow let them know that He exists?

I would. I bet other skeptics would to. So why doesn't he?

Jesus was killed by the Jews not caring that he had done many mighty works in front of them. PS: The Jews have never denied the recorded miracles of Jesus.

As it stands, the Bible is not trustworthy. Take the topic I raised about the Exodus alone, for starters. You know the one, the one which no Christians are engaging... How am I to still believe what it says about Jesus?

[Purple Knight]

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself?

The best case is that you're not supposed to be certain. If you really, actually believed you'd get rewarded for being a good person, you wouldn't be doing it for the right reason.

I argue that most people don't believe their religion, and if the religion happens to be true, that part's intended.

So basically, in a nutshell, the Christian God wants people to come to him by way of faith. Hence, he purposefully made the Bible sketchy. Got it

That's the best defence I can give it, yes. And it has other problems. A fair god would at least reveal to people the behaviour he expects. That's pretty damning. It means that if there is, for example, a moral disagreement between Christians and Muslims, one side is simply lying (or they're NPCs or something), or no fair god exists.

The only consistent answer is that god gave everybody a conscience, gave everyone the answer to what is right and what is wrong, and if you look in your heart and it says something about right and wrong, and others disagree, they're lying. This is problematic because 1) then you don't need god at all and 2) it's a massive stretch to say so many people are lying and 3) psychopaths have to be NPCs.

[TRANSPONDER]

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself?

The best case is that you're not supposed to be certain. If you really, actually believed you'd get rewarded for being a good person, you wouldn't be doing it for the right reason.

I argue that most people don't believe their religion, and if the religion happens to be true, that part's intended.

So basically, in a nutshell, the Christian God wants people to come to him by way of faith. Hence, he purposefully made the Bible sketchy. Got it

That's the best defence I can give it, yes. And it has other problems. A fair god would at least reveal to people the behaviour he expects. That's pretty damning. It means that if there is, for example, a moral disagreement between Christians and Muslims, one side is simply lying (or they're NPCs or something), or no fair god exists.

The only consistent answer is that god gave everybody a conscience, gave everyone the answer to what is right and what is wrong, and if you look in your heart and it says something about right and wrong, and others disagree, they're lying. This is problematic because 1) then you don't need god at all and 2) it's a massive stretch to say so many people are lying and 3) psychopaths have to be NPCs.

That clearly isn't happening. Not only do we not know what is right and wrong once and for all but we for sure don't get it from the Bible. Why we don't even get iit clear which god it is or which denomination, dogma, interpretation or belief is right.

We get nothing fore sure. Your post seems to see this so let me push back against the hunted apologetic as it might be put by a theist (as I can't recall whether you are or aren't).

The excuse for God not making clear what 'He expects' is that we'd be doing it for the wrong reasons? Foolish. Even if we we supposed that Christians are not doing the Good with one eye on god, but purely for the same reason humanists do - because it helps everyone (the species) why would it matter if we do it? As Euthyphro says, either the good is right of itself, or is just a god's opinion.

Christian apologists say that God is our perfect CCTV. We act better because God is watching what we do, and yet the apologetic is that they aren't considering that. And the results (check the prison figures) don't seem to show the believers behave noticeably better,, anyway.

No, the better argument (for those who aren't already decided on Faith) is that like it or not morals are thrashed out by humans for humans, (animals as collateral damage) and the world looks and acts like it would if there was no god there, never mind any particular one.

Come along now even if you don't buy that, you must surely see why atheists do.

[Purple Knight]

The excuse for God not making clear what 'He expects' is that we'd be doing it for the wrong reasons? Foolish.

I agree. The excuse for god not making it clear that he exists and that we'll be rewarded for doing the right thing, is that that would indeed muddy the water as to who is doing the right thing for the right reason. I'm saying that divine hiddenness has a potentially good excuse, but morality being hidden... has no good excuse.

No, the better argument (for those who aren't already decided on Faith) is that like it or not morals are thrashed out by humans for humans, (animals as collateral damage) and the world looks and acts like it would if there was no god there, never mind any particular one.

Morals being manmade has problems too. So far, no one can give me a good reason that I cannot reject your morals (including the can't murder part) and simply decide that mine are better.

I argue that I can, and because I have no moral agreement with you, you're free to do whatever to me as a result. No mutual agreement = we can both kill each other. But nobody seems to buy that, everybody seems to also reject that numbers = righteousness, and reject that majority rules (if so, how did we come to know slavery was wrong?), so nobody can give me a good answer, nobody thinks morality is manmade, and nobody knows where it comes from. Even theists don't seem to know. If it comes from God, where did God get it? Did he invent it on the spot and just enforces it with his might? That's not morality. That's might-makes-right.