Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Are we living in the last days?

Well, technically yes…But, realistically no! Because, there are many events that must take place first, before the Christ returns. Where, the idea that the coronavirus pandemic is a sign or event of the last days is unfounded. There have been much worst pandemics in the past centuries, than the coronavirus and generally, we are better prepared today. So, this can't be a measuring stick. If, we were to review the causes of deaths in the U.S. (annually) many may be shocked to know that the coronavirus wouldn't even be close to the top spot.

Hence, at present, it is my position that the baby boomers, their children, grandchildren and (more than likely) great grandchildren will die before the last days arrive. Or, at least (about) 200 years. This reality just shows how easily the human being can be put into a tail spin by the sources of information we receive…

However, as a generation dies out, their opportunity to "get right with God" begins to fade for them and they are in the last days…Unless, there is a resurrection of the dead.

[JehovahsWitness]

I am in broad agreement with your opinion. Are we obligated ,because of these sentiments , to try and find solutions and help avert what we assume is the end game coming. Are we obliged to cry wolf, repeatedly! We could accept it as a fait accompli!

Are these rhetorical questions? We are not obliged to find solutions (Jesus has that covered), we are obliged to warn people of the coming events and offer comfort that a new world is on the horizon. You might not know it since few people that are not Jehovahs Winesses have made talking to strangers about the bible a way of life, but there are people that are searching for hope, there are people that are suffering, there are peole that are askng what the future holds for themselves and their children, our duty is to help them!

This is not "crying wolf" (since we can but announce the "season", not the day or the jour). But we are in the season, we are that last "generation" and we will all have to anwser to the Lord for keeping silent when we should have spoken out.

MATTHEW 10:27

What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.

JW

[William]

JehovahsWitness: From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

otseng: For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

William: I think it possible that we are living in 'the last days' of this current system which has been evolving over thousands of years, but which will be shown to have run its course.

[Purple Knight]

Likewise, scoffers will mock it is not the end.

I'm an atheist and I don't really ascribe any religious meaning to it, but it really does seem like the blup is hitting the fan.

I've never seen people this divisive. I've never seen people crying evil, evil, evil like they do now. This is Leftists doing it, the likeliest to be atheist. These are people who hate religion precisely because it dictates right and wrong from on high. And then they... proceed to dictate right and wrong from on high. And everyone knows they're right.

I don't have to be religious or believe in Zombie Jesus to realise that everything's gone mush-bananas.

[Diagoras]

I believe we are in the last days in several aspects, and not all of them are religious.

We are in the last days of the United States as a great nation. We are rapidly descending into socialism and into a police state. The massive debt incurred by the government, corporations, and individuals will bankrupt us. Society will soon start to collapse as bread lines get longer, grocery shelves get emptier, and more file for unemployment. Massive monetary policy will only lead to hyperinflation and kill the dollar as the reserve currency.

<bolding mine>

Very different than 'last days' in the biblical 'Day of Judgement' sense. Can you point to specific actions and policies that demonstrate a 'rapid descent into socialism'?

Things around the world are not much better. All countries seem to be racing towards the bottom of devaluing their currency and printing money with total abandon.

Any examples to share? More pertinently, can you point to any articles that give an objective assessment of currency devaluation as a viable financial tool for stabilising economies?

Governments are seizing power and bringing everyone into submission.

That's needlessly emotive language for what in many cases is enacting emergency measures to combat a threat to the nation's health. You haven't given any example of a country where such measures aren't temporary.

Meanwhile, millions, if not billions, are on the path of starving to death while being locked down in their homes.

Over half a million cases of Covid-19 reported in the US and around 23,600 deaths as at today. How many confirmed cases of 'starvation due to being locked inside' have there been, worldwide?

Governments keep lying to the people and really have no idea how to handle all the crises that are happening.

Your worldview may be severely distorted due to the leadership qualities of the US being... rather an outlier. Many of us in other parts of the world consider that our governments, while by no means perfect, have done a remarkably good job of 'flattening the curve' and preventing the situation spiralling out of control.

They promise solutions and when they do try to help, it only makes things worse. Pretty soon, the public will realize they are being duped by their leaders.

Some will. Some already have. And for a minority, their 'very stable genius' will have them convinced them that America will be great again very soon indeed, even unto their final breath.

For years I've believed the end is near, but not publicly willing to make the claim. Now I'm convinced it's here.

In all seriousness, the world's been getting better and better for years now. I recommend the book 'Factfulness' to anyone who doubts that statement. You can get a basic idea of what it's about here.

All the talk about a V-shaped recovery or we'll go back to normal after COVID-19 is over or the Fed has this in control are all wishful thinking. We are entering a global super depression that history books will be talking about for thousands of years from now (if humanity still exists).

Difficult to predict the scope, the lengths and depths of depressions across the world, as the global economy is vastly more interdependent than it was in the 1920's and 30's (following the Spanish 'flu). Certain to be bad, but by no means the 'end of the world'.

My advice: take heart, be kind, look after yourself and your family. Don't believe the doomsayers, and most of all, wash your hands.

[marco]

It seems Christians at least did believe they were living in the last days of the Jewish temple system, due to Jesus prophecy. They were right.

Ah yes, Jesus was condemned by the Jews and he is now predicting calamity for them, is he? There was Jewish unrest against Rome even before Christ came and it was pretty obvious Rome would not long tolerate Jewish insurrections.

Christ through the agency of the notoriously mendacious Matthew predicted the end. One key feature is: " Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left." So we should go around looking for these strange women who still use primitive hand mills. Christ, through the deceptive tongue of Matthew, was just a poor man of his time, whose vision extended no further than swords and martial trumpets, kings and legions of soldiers.

[marco]

Yes, I think we are starting to see the fulfillment of the end times according to the Bible.

Mar 13:8 KJV - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

Am I certain Jesus will return soon? I'm starting to be convinced of it.

There is no proper prophecy to be fulfilled. Wars, earthquakes and famines are part of life and it doesn't take a genius to mention them in connection with apocalyptic tragedy. Vesuvius erupted in 79AD. End of the world for some. Krakatoa erupted in 1883 with vast destruction. We have had tsunamis, any one of which would lead the superstitious to look for clouds carrying passengers. Plagues? We had the Black Death in the 14th century, with the 100 Years War running alongside, and the world lived on.

Before Christ's time we had destructive wars: in the Punic Wars Rome suffered massive slaughter at Cannae; just before Bethlehem produced its angel choirs, we had Rome's civil war. In modern times we had one of the bloodiest battles, thanks to Napoleon, at Solferino, which inspired the formation of the Red Cross. The Somme is a figurative term for bellicose destruction and WW2 ended with a show of human ingenuity at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. War, famine, natural disaster are not hugely imaginative suppositions for a last day scenario. They are what some poor soul from the first century would fear most. Had Christ mentioned atomic energy or destruction of the ozone layer - knowledge denied his primitive brothers - then we would worry.


The problem with the disaster signs is they are commonplace in human history and absolutely useless as predictors. That Christ allegedly chose such items for his prophecy suggests Christ had his feet and thoughts in the first century.

When the Earth is close to its expiry date I would think the countries of the world will have been well informed long, long before. Rumours of wars and pestilence would have nothing to do with it.

[marco]

My advice: take heart, be kind, look after yourself and your family. Don't believe the doomsayers, and most of all, wash your hands.

And to allay fears of final days we should wash our hands of folk like Matthew.

Pessimism doesn't build a better world - that is left to the dreamers, the thinkers and the optimists. I agree they give us thorns as well as roses, but suffering and death are part of humanity's path. We are probably living not in the last days of civilisation, but nearing the end of our primitive state.

[Thomas123]

Pessimism, realism and optimism are constant bedfellows.

What is required is a method of objective appraisal.
What are our human objectives, are we reaching them, are we approaching their realization, or are we getting lost?

It is the ultimate cop out to go stoical on this pressing issue.

[marco]

Pessimism, realism and optimism are constant bedfellows.

Well pessimism can keep people safe if used properly. On a visit to Russia my 16-year old guide said in his ominous, adult Russian, when I asked why he was wearing a raincoat on a scorching day: "I would rather be a dry pessimist than a wet optimist." The child can teach the man, as Wordsworth observed in his Rainbow poem. But carried too far, as with last day worries, pessimism prevents healing laughter and human enjoyment. How can I enjoy my Chateauneuf if I have to watch the skies for Christ on a cloud?

You want to bring us back to reality: to our unhappy earth with its wailing millions. We can make our tiny contribution and some of the pain will go, but pain is part of our inheritance, not through Adam, but through our perishable natures. Whether God is or is not, we still have pain. Believing God plans disaster for us might increase that pain for some.