Is it reasonable to believe in God?

[historia]

Is it reasonable to believe in God?

Note, the question here is not whether you think it is true that God exists, but simply whether such a belief is reasonable or not.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #279]

The fact remains, without the Bible, there is no Yahweh.

I think it fair to say that there would be no name "YHVH" if the bible did not exist.

People had names long before there was written records of names. If God exists and named himself; the most one can say is we would not know the name if it was not revealed.

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #290]

The fact remains, without the Bible, there is no Yahweh.
I think it fair to say that there would be no name "YHVH" if the bible did not exist.
There would literally be no Yahweh concept, without the Bible.

Not so. GOD-Concepts would very much still exist.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #290]

The fact remains, without the Bible, there is no Yahweh.
I think it fair to say that there would be no name "YHVH" if the bible did not exist.
There would literally be no Yahweh concept, without the Bible.

Not so. GOD-Concepts would very much still exist.

Yup, the concept of Gods in general would still exist, which is why I was very clear in stating specifically that the concept of Yahweh would not exist without the Bible. I have no idea what you wish to accomplish by arguing that some general concept of gods would still exist.

con·cept
noun
an abstract idea; a general notion.

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #293]

Not so. GOD-Concepts would very much still exist.

Yup, the concept of Gods in general would still exist, which is why I was very clear in stating specifically that the concept of Yahweh would not exist without the Bible.

Those concepts of YHVH are generally stories told about some of those who were claimed by the story-tellers to have had a relationship with YHVH while being Human.
However, as those stories also indicate, YHVH is real and as such, moves beyond the boarders of human institutions built upon those stories.

YHVH would still exist without the bible telling it so. Other cultures also show YHVH's influence, even that those cultures call GOD, by another name/other names.

Thus YHVH [or whatever name we give to that real sentient being] could never have been ignored re the development/growth of Human Personalities. GOD-Concepts would very much still exist, whatever the forms these took on...

[Clownboat]

Those concepts of YHVH are generally stories told about some of those who were claimed by the story-tellers to have had a relationship with YHVH while being Human.
However, as those stories also indicate, YHVH is real and as such, moves beyond the boarders of human institutions built upon those stories.

Got it! If gods are talked about in stories, they are true.
I reject your nonsensical conclusion for being nonsensical. Seriously, Yahweh is real because Yahweh is indicated to be real in stories? Your mechanism must be rejected because it would lead to belief in far to many competing gods.

YHVH would still exist without the bible telling it so.

Full stop. Yahweh ONLY exists if Yahweh exists. Stories nor holy books make any of the gods exist. Your reasoning being displayed here is troubling and would lead to all the gods as being real, therefore it must be rejected.

Other cultures also show YHVH's influence

Again, I'm alarmed!
When groups of people commit genocide in the name of their god for example, cultures are going to notice. That in no way would make the god concepts as real. Surely you see this?

even that those cultures call GOD, by another name/other names.

Please show that you speak the truth here and that the Egyptians for example were actually talking about Yahweh.

Thus YHVH [or whatever name we give to that real sentient being]

Yahweh is a specific god concept that we learn about from the Bible, not a name we assign to setient beings. Take the Bible away, and there is no reason humans would know about a Yahweh.

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #295]

Got it! If gods are talked about in stories, they are true.

Nope.

I reject your nonsensical conclusion for being nonsensical.

You base your rejection on your 'got it' so, no.

Seriously, Yahweh is real because Yahweh is indicated to be real in stories?

No. The premise is that we exist within a creation. The premise is that YHVH is the bibles name for a creator, as conceptualized within the particular religions which promote the bible stories as being true.

Your mechanism must be rejected because it would lead to belief in far to many competing gods.

The 'competing gods' is simply one's way of saying that because there is competitiveness within religions, that this indicates there are competitive gods. That would be a conclusion based upon faulty interpretation of the evidence.

My argument is that there is only One Sentient Mind, even that many minds may be aligned with supporting said over-mind [GOD/YHVH/et al] and that it is natural for Humans to consider that they are existing within a creation [implying a creator/creators]

YHVH would still exist without the bible telling it so.

Full stop. Yahweh ONLY exists if Yahweh exists.

Of course. The thought experiment takes the premise that we exist within a created thing, therefore a Creator/Creators were, and perhaps still are, involved.

Stories nor holy books make any of the gods exist. Your reasoning being displayed here is troubling and would lead to all the gods as being real, therefore it must be rejected.

Depending upon which gods one is speaking about. I do not consider that YHVH has to be among those gods which do not exist, but am open to good arguments about that idea.

Other cultures also show YHVH's influence

Again, I'm alarmed!
When groups of people commit genocide in the name of their god for example, cultures are going to notice. That in no way would make the god concepts as real. Surely you see this?

I see no reason to conflate cultural crimes with the existence of a Creator/Creators. That would be like saying "the environment made me do it" when other factors might also be involved.

God-concepts can still be real, even when removing the stigma of cultural atrocity.

even that those cultures call GOD, by another name/other names.

Please show that you speak the truth here and that the Egyptians for example were actually talking about Yahweh.

What did the Egyptians have to say about their ideas of gods? That there was a hierarchy of gods? That overall, there was One GOD?

I wasn't claiming that any culture 'saw' in the idea of YHVH, a reflection of their own theologies. I was saying that it was there to be recognized, if one could.
It is probably for the best, in that if cultures failed to see the connection, they disappeared eventually.

Thus YHVH [or whatever name we give to that real sentient being] could never have been ignored re the development/growth of Human Personalities. GOD-Concepts would very much still exist, whatever the forms these took on...

Yahweh is a specific god concept that we learn about from the Bible, not a name we assign to setient beings. Take the Bible away, and there is no reason humans would know about a Yahweh.

The specific assigning YHVH is given through biblical script is that there are no other gods beside YHVH - no other god concepts working against the reality of YHVH's existence as a sentient mind involved with human beings.

For example, when I think of the idea that the planet is a container for such a sentient creator- mind, while bible-folk might cry 'foul/paganism' I still compare the workings of the Earth-Entity as reflective of YHVH - an ambassador god- consciousness to the overall GOD - Consciousness.

I see no problem with this approach. Certainly not the ones you [or even the bible-minded folk] are presenting as 'problems'.

[Tcg]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Thirty pages talking about God. Not a single presentation of verifiable evidence of God. Obviously, the answer to the O.P is NO. The real question we are left then is why do people believe in God? Whatever the answer, it's not based on reason. Perhaps it's death denial. Who wants to accept that death is final? Perhaps only those who are willing to accept reality.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Thirty pages talking about God. Not a single presentation of verifiable evidence of God. Obviously, the answer to the O.P is NO. The real question we are left then is why do people believe in God? Whatever the answer, it's not based on reason. Perhaps it's death denial. Who wants to accept that death is final? Perhaps only those who are willing to accept reality.


Tcg

Look into studies about the right temporal lobe and religious type experiences if ya haven't.

My position is that religious belief comforts folks instead of having their fears and concerns interfere with their lives.

Once we understood our impending death, that was a heavy psychological toll. Belief in eternal life, ironically after death, seems a comfort to many.

[TRANSPONDER]

Not a thing. We aren't fooled by playing with words like talking about what exists as a 'Creation' and thus there has to be an (intelligent) Creator Aka God.Such equivocation - fallacy ought not to foolanyone.

And...and we seem to be stuck with this just at the moment ...even if an intelligent creative being was validated, that would not get us to a particular god. Why claim that all the others are just other names for YHWH? One could equally say that all the others, including YHWH are different names for Krishna, Quetzalcoatl or Ahura mazda. I'm bemused that such clumsy attempts at word - play are apparently supposed to trick us.

[William]

The reason I use the name YHVH is because the identifier is known by both Hebrew and Christian to be the name they use when referring to GOD, and since site this is predominantly Christian, YHVH will suffice re the identifier.

I myself am not interested in 'a particular god' re the names of gods as my argument isn't along those lines of enquiry.

Rather, I am pointing out the natural tendency of humans to go the way of theism, and whatever names they come up with in that process, whether they know it or not - they are speaking about the same one real entity - [ I am assuming the existence of said entity for the sake of the argument] - and this is something which is part of the Hebrew creed re GOD being One.

The way that GOD is dressed and named varies from culture to culture but the underlying similarities can be identified and from that, one can understand that while the person might see 'other' gods in other cultures, those distinctions are superficial dressing.

Another reason why I specifically use the God-Name "YHVH" can be read {HERE}