Why Does Christianity Spawn Evil Dictators?

[Diogenes]

Hitler claimed to be Christian. Stalin was a Christian acolyte. Trump, the 'Grab 'em by the _ _ _ _ _ President who is revered by fundamentalists, and now Vladimir Putin engulfs the world in war, misery, and genocide while championing his Christian faith. How does the faith of Jesus of Nazareth spawn such actors? https://religiondispatches.org/is-putin ... questions/

[TRANSPONDER]

Interesting. The thing is that Eugenics may have originated (like other things) with the best intentions - helping evolution along a bit. But (like other things - including religion) it could be used for'evil' purposes (using the human usage of evil, as per human moral codes). Of course we want to eradicate disease and infirmity, but we now see it as a mistake to see no value in those in a wheelchair, even apart from any racial aspect to Eugenics.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #29]

I find it very strange that the Christian religion saw itself as deserving credit for leading the West in its' battle against Two successive dictators and not worrying much about irradiating the earth and offering jobs to Ex - Nazis to do it, and now they are the ones who are fighting the (scientific) efforts to clean up the planet.

I think [but am not sure] that this is what the OP is focused upon. It is folk calling themselves "Christians" who are "doing this".

Ok there is space junk. But the answer is to find a way to deal with it, not bash science because it is atheist when it is rather Christian - funding corporations that have found the pushing of technology (and never mind space junk, plastic bags and atmospheric pollution) very profitable.

To be clear, pointing out historical factors is not bashing...either theist or non theists. It is just pointing out the historical factors.

Essentially what we have here is that materialists calling themselves "Christians" or "Atheists" [theists or non-theists] are doing the profiteering and subsequent damage.

[The observation of which appears not to be related to the actual reason for the thread topic]

The topic is about dictators and why religion throws them up, not about Corporation or Materialism criticism. Not that either should be except from criticism, as much as religion.

But I repeat that I don't see either religion or a lack of it as being to blame for dictators. If anything, it's evolution that is to blame. Dictators do find dogma and flag waving very handy for keeping power and control, and Religion is very useful for that. On the other hand, it is also handy in a military effort to take them down. But also popular movements (democracy in action shall we say) tends not to use religion as motivation but human rights.

[adamparr7884]

Interesting. The thing is that Eugenics may have originated (like other things) with the best intentions - helping evolution along a bit. But (like other things - including religion) it could be used for'evil' purposes (using the human usage of evil, as per human moral codes). Of course we want to eradicate disease and infirmity, but we now see it as a mistake to see no value in those in a wheelchair, even apart from any racial aspect to Eugenics.

Fine

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]


Suppose the story is true. There is a Satan. If I were Satan, I think I would try to influence those with the truth the most. I wouldn't care about atheists or Buddhists as they are lost anyway.

I would try to destroy those in the faith. I would give them political power in hopes it corrupts them.

Just use your imagination a bit.

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]


Suppose the story is true. There is a Satan. If I were Satan, I think I would try to influence those with the truth the most. I wouldn't care about atheists or Buddhists as they are lost anyway.

I would try to destroy those in the faith. I would give them political power in hopes it corrupts them.

Just use your imagination a bit.

I'm not sure how to respond. 'What story?' When 'Satan' is invoked [I'm not trying to be offensive, but...] I feel we have entered the realm of fantasy. Let me explain. I like movies. I like sci-fi. I don't like fantasy/horror movies or books because there appear to be no rules. With sci-fi there is at least the attempt to follow rational rules, laws of physics. With fantasy, anything can happen. Are you actually saying it is plausible that Satan saw into the hearts of Trump, Stalin, Hitler, and Putin and saw they were authentic Christians, true believers and corrupted them? That Satan put more pressure on them then he did on Martin Luther for example? Isn't it much more plausible that Trump, Stalin, Hitler and Putin are only Christian in education, pro forma Christians who talk about and enforce the rules of cultural Christianity, while missing the spirit of those rules which embody loving people?

Take Trump for example. From his earliest childhood he appears to be a church going sociopath who never actually believed the Bible or followed it; who just uses its followers; who believes repeating a lie loudly enough, often enough will make the fact it is a lie not matter.

Stalin was raised to be an altar boy, but killed millions. Hitler claimed to be a Christian but was the opposite. Putin claims obedience to and venerates the Russian Orthodox Church, yet he has ordered the murder of rivals and wages a war against the civilian population of Ukraine. There is evidence of many war crimes against that population.

Seems to me that if even if there were a fantastic being like Satan, he would know these guys aren't Christians at all and never were. If they ever had faith, it had no hold on them. They all act in ways that seem the opposite of Christ. The Russian Orthodox Church appears to be acting in concert with Putin's atrocities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/21/worl ... hurch.html

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]


Suppose the story is true. There is a Satan. If I were Satan, I think I would try to influence those with the truth the most. I wouldn't care about atheists or Buddhists as they are lost anyway.

I would try to destroy those in the faith. I would give them political power in hopes it corrupts them.

Just use your imagination a bit.

It doesn't take much imagination to credit anything good (within Christianity) to God and anything bad to Satan. In fact it takes a lack of imagination to not wonder why God allows Satan to corrupt His Church like that. I know - play the 'Free Will' card.

But aside from a variant of the morality argument, and also aside that I prefer to argue the evidential truth or not of religions rather than do finger -pointing, I do note how the Right is attracted to religion. And how the Church seems to feel happier with authoritarian regimes. I see the Spanish Civil war and the rise of Franco as a case in point. I gather that the Catholic church was very much on his side, on the Right.

Of course it gets complicated because some churchmen, seeing the human good rather than the authoritarian bad, will quietly work against the Regime, like Italian Catholics who protected Jews, in spite of the Church's chumminess with fascism and the doctrinal dislike of Jews. I tend to think that people are good in spite of religious doctrines and its' political affiliations, rather than because of them.

And of course the Left has its' dictators, as anti -atheists will fall over themselves to point out. Yes; Marxism itself can become authoritarian dogma, and atheism a Doctrinal Shibboleth of Communist dictatorship, and in any and all respects, as anti-liberal as Fascism, and as manipulative of knowledge, reason and science as any Nazi political machine.

It's why I see those things as Dogmatic, not rationalist and as little to do with rationalist atheism as Christianity has to do with former KGB men, now defenders of the Faith. And a political theory I have is that politics is not a straight line with Extremes of left and right,b ut a circle with liberalism at the bottom and extremism of Left or right at the top, and they can be told apart only by the cap - badges. I particularly noted how the Burmese communist dictators turned Fascist without even changing hats, (taking the cue from China, as it always does (1) and that showed me how Communist and Fascist dictators are pretty much the same with just a few Things that differ - capitalists (oligarchs) playing ball rather than being jailed and the companies state - run; Marxism rather than the local religion being the Ism of the party, and religions tolerated if they play ball.

Anyway, the point is that religious authority will tend to side (a bit uneasily) with temporal authority, because both watch each other for any sign of challenge to their own authority. Of course, the ruler has the Army and that's the last word; as in the fall of communism in Russia and the Non fall of it in China, it was which side the army took. But interesting as the subject is, dictatorship is what men do, and religion...is also what men do, too, in looking after their own interests.

(1) it was a model example of how Deng turned Communist China into capitalist China almost overnight though Tianamen square had no Chinese Yeltsin to bring down the party and make it China rather than Communist China, as Russia replaced the Soviet Union. But how quickly and easily China swung back from being a part of the global trade world to West (not capitalist!) - hating authoritarianism again.