Could Jesus be Satan?

[Zzyzx]

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According to the bible Satan was "cast down to Earth" – and later a "messiah" shows up claiming to know a great deal about "god", doing "miracles" (supernatural forms of magic), calling himself by the common name Jesus, and is accepted as being "god" (or "son of god") by followers.

Satan, according to lore, is credited with supernatural powers AND a lust for power, a great ego, a deceptive nature, and with being the epitome of evil. As such "he" could easily arrange a "virgin birth", could he not? With supernatural powers couldn't he also walk on water, feed multitudes from a lunchbox, turn water into wine, preach convincingly, and even arrange a "resurrection"?

Since all of that could be done by any competent supernatural being of great power, what is there to insure that Jesus and Satan are not the same being?

One might cite a bible story about Jesus and Satan being in the same place (atop a high mountain), but there were no known witnesses and there is no such mountain (from which all kingdoms of the Earth can be seen from a single point on a sphere). Thus, Satan could well have made up such a story (and in the role of Jesus, tell followers that it had happened – or have them informed by another source).

Couldn't ALL the events attributed to Jesus or God be the actions of a "Satan"? How can one tell for sure which supernatural entity produced what effects?

Couldn't "Satan" arrange for the bible to be written by worshipers / followers / believers? How can anyone be certain that they are not worshiping Satan.

What would be Satan's motivation to create a Jesus character and play the role of "the son of god"? EGO and a desire to be worshipped.

[Skyler]

Scarier still, what if logic doesn't work?

Can you prove that logic works?

If it didn't work, would it be logic?

Is it logic because it works?

[LittlePig]

Logic - the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logic

If you could show that it doesn't work, would it be logic?

[guy fawkes]

Oh you guys are so cute. To bad this is not a competition of penis-semantics, so lets end it here:

Logic is (the word as most people define it) is how we percieve reality. So if it is possible, yes, it would be logic, else logic could not exist (ie. show something that is not logic (not real), such as a god).

[LittlePig]

This sentence is false.

--------------------------------

(Dogs are not the only ones to chase their tails...)

[guy fawkes]

This sentence is false.

--------------------------------

(Dogs are not the only ones to chase their tails...)

Logic (the word) equates with reality. You CAN BE un-logical in one way, and that is mentally. Such as "love" for example, that can be ilogical (such as being in love with a woman that hurts you, thus, that is an ilogical thing).

[Cmass]

:yapyap: ](*,)

Hijack - seize control of; take over, usurp, arrogate, seize, assume - seize and take control without authority and possibly with force; take as one's right or possession; "He assumed to himself the right to fill all positions in the town"; "he usurped my rights"; "She seized control of the throne after her husband died"
"They guys who hijacked this thread made it boring " :sleep:

1. Boring - so lacking in interest as to cause mental weariness; "a boring evening with uninteresting people"; "the deadening effect of some routine tasks"; "a dull play"; "These guys bore me with their dull diversions from the OP"

[LittlePig]

pointless - without a point; without force, meaning, or relevance: a pointless remark. without a point scored, as in a forum: the OP scores no points.

Arguing against Christianity as a supernatural conspiracy theory wrapped in an evolving myth inside multiple, inconsistent, quasi-historical religious traditions is...pointless.

If you are going to presume the supernatural and go on a journey of what-ifs, everything is possible and nothing is debunkable.

What if Cmass = Satan?

[melodious]

:yapyap: ](*,)

Hijack - seize control of; take over, usurp, arrogate, seize, assume - seize and take control without authority and possibly with force; take as one's right or possession; "He assumed to himself the right to fill all positions in the town"; "he usurped my rights"; "She seized control of the throne after her husband died"
"They guys who hijacked this thread made it boring " :sleep:

1. Boring - so lacking in interest as to cause mental weariness; "a boring evening with uninteresting people"; "the deadening effect of some routine tasks"; "a dull play"; "These guys bore me with their dull diversions from the OP"

It's funny you say that, cmass. I was thinking the same thing.

However, let me bring it back to the OP, which was, I believe, the topic of whether or not Jesus could be Satan in disguise. Let us look at this in a more mythological way, if we can.

Believe it or not, there are some connections that everyone so far has overlooked. The Egyptians had a god named Sut, Set, or Seth. This ass-headed god was represented by the hot, dry desert and was also considered the god of foreigners. When Moses returned to Egypt to confront Pharaoh, he would have been perceived by the Egyptians as coming in the name of this god. Now later we find in the Hebrews' Genesis the third son of Adam, named Seth, who was, according to scripture, a more perfect image of his father ("The Great Seth" is a Gnostic title for Jesus Christ).

Another title for the Egyptian god (most gods had various titles and optional spellings) was 'Set-hen,' which sounds a lot like 'Satan,' and was seen as the enemy of Osiris and Horus. These last two were associated with the sun, as many know, but Seth was also connected with the sun's piercing heat-rays in the desert. So one might say that Osiris/Horus represented the nice qualities of the sun and Seth (Set-hen/Satan) represented the not-so-desirable qualites of the sun. Osiris was also what is known as a 'black god,' meaning his myth has to do with mysteries of death and also the fertile, black soil of the Nile valley that was created by annual flooding.

Basically, what we have here is our classic myth of the annual journey of the sun - the sun's birth, life, death, and rebirth. The seemingly dueling forces of nature were apparent to the ancients and they personified it through myth. However, they also understood that the cycles of nature, though appearing in conflict, were actually in union and harmony, being complementary opposites rather than conflicting. This is the first veil of any myth of this sort, and all myths were written with these layers and veils, so to speak, so that their mysteries were not profaned by the vulgar public.

So what we have with Jesus and Satan is, essentially, the same thing: Complementary oppositions of nature veiled with a myth of apparent conflicting forces. One way to see it is that Jesus/Osiris-Horus represents the sun from its birth at the Winter Solstice to the end of its waxing at the Summer Solstice, and Seth/Satan represents the sun from its "suffering" through to its death at winter (in one version of the Horus myth, Seth is actually tied to the "slave's post" and suffers in place of Horus. Compare this with the Gnostic Christians' view that Jesus did not suffer on the Cross, but that there was one who took his place, or that it was only his image, or eidolon, that appeared to be suffering. This perspective is known as docetism). The other way is to simply view it as Jesus/Osiris-Horus - the "good-guy" who is the sun - versus Seth/Satan - the "bad guy" who is the darkness of night and the force which makes the sun suffer and die each year.

Note: Saturn was viewed by the ancients as the "ruler of the nightsky;" Saturn and Satan are etymologically, and in some ways even mythically, connected. Saturn is "Father Time" who carries his sickle to "reap" his "harvest." The classic figure of the Grim Reaper is essentially, Saturn. Also, in astrology Saturn rules the skeletal system and is the planet of hard work and labors. Saturn is also known as the "The Great Black Dragon," which connotes death or transformation, this being also symbolized in the 'Death' card of the Tarot, which often pictures "The Reaper." ........ Jesus is the Christian godman who represents the mysteries of death and transformation.

Can anybody see where I'm going with this?

In the spirit of the serpent of gnosis - M

[Zzyzx]

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Can anybody see where I'm going with this?

As I understand what is presented here (and similar presentations elsewhere), Jesus and Satan could be said to be opposite faces of the same coin (same legend) and that that the original legend appears to relate to astronomy / astrology.

[melodious]

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Can anybody see where I'm going with this?

As I understand what is presented here (and similar presentations elsewhere), Jesus and Satan could be said to be opposite faces of the same coin (same legend) and that that the original legend appears to relate to astronomy / astrology.

Very good, sir, very good. Spoken like a true gentleman and a scholar. I hope others can appreciate what I'm sharing here, as you have; however, I don't think that was really where you were aiming with this thread. I could be wrong, though.

Thanks for the response to my post, Zz. It seems most people just look over them and don't care to respond. IMO, not to "toot my horn," but my posts seem to bring to the table a more adult, scholarly approach that I suppose is not interesting to immature "hi-jackers."

M