Us

[nobspeople]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

[cms]

Of course he did. But there is a Father-Son metaphor at work in the bible that needs to be accounted for.

"All who are led by the Spirit are sons of God."

Also the whole virgin conception thing. So unless you also believe these should just be ignored?

I don't believe in the whole virgin conception.

[cms]

But it also takes matter to vibrate matter. So what is the interface between spirit and matter that enables their interaction?

To me, the Bible isn't a science book. It's a spiritual guide. The story of creation wasn't meant to tell us how everything came to be. I don't think the writers actually knew, nor did they care. Their point being, that in the beginning, there were people who knew and understood God. They heard His voice and obeyed his commands. In other words, they lived in the Spirit of God, produced good fruit ,and they were happy.........

" Because what may be know of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made.

....UNTIL "Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him, nor were they thankful. but became futile in their thought and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise they became fools."

[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #50]

Sound results from the vibration of matter. There is no sound in a vacuum.

Vibration of matter results from sound. Sound is what causes vibration. Vibration is what we humans hear, and refer to as 'sound' because we hear something - like our other senses, we do not pick up the total spectrum of what actually exists.

So we agree there must have been something versus nothing at the beginning and creatio ex nihilo is a false theology.

Not only a false theology, but a false cosmology.

But it also takes matter to vibrate matter.

All off which is a ripple effect of the Origin of Sound

So what is the interface between spirit and matter that enables their interaction? Or maybe we need to better define what 'spirit' is.

Or maybe it is matter which is not being defined correctly.

Spirit is that which creates the sound which forms the matter into coherent order.

Last, where does it get us putting such primacy on sound?

Coherency.

I'm trying to get a sense of where this all leads. You posit in your other post that "sound creates the universe," but it certainly did not do so from nothing (see above),

No - sound comes from "The Creator" as thought and the formation of matter is the result of this creative thought cast upon the mind-screen of said creator.

and in itself sound is... just a vehicle, or medium.

No. The medium is the sound-screen of matter. [The Mind] whereas Sound is the Creator Thinking.

I would rather suggest it is the Word itself, that sound may carry, that is the true creative force.

"The Word" therefore would be "what The Creator thinks."
Which would mean that;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

translates;

"At the beginning of this Universe, was The Thought and The Thought was within The Creators Mind and The Thought was not separate from The Creator."

Written Human Language is the codification of sound, and as such, can be decoded.

When decoded, it becomes evident that everything was created. The Universe is not the result of a mindless chaotic process, but rather, a mindful orderly process.

[SOURCE]
The Origin of Sound = 199
Ask and It Will Be Given = 199
Without - Within = 199
The Smallest Spark = 199
It is all making sense = 199

A mindful orderly process = 272
The dawning of The Universe = 272
Copenhagen Interpretation = 272

All is a ripple effect of the Origin of Sound = 395
The Philosophy of Quantum Theory = 395

[cms]

"The Word" therefore would be "what The Creator thinks."
Which would mean that;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

translates;

"At the beginning of this Universe, was The Thought and The Thought was within The Creators Mind and The Thought was not separate from The Creator."

William, I can agree with this. But, I think it can also be said that the Word=Logos=logic, reason. Or that God had wisdom.

[William]

"The Word" therefore would be "what The Creator thinks."
Which would mean that;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

translates;

"At the beginning of this Universe, was The Thought and The Thought was within The Creators Mind and The Thought was not separate from The Creator."

William, I can agree with this. But, I think it can also be said that the Word=Logos=logic, reason. Or that God had wisdom.

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

[Difflugia]

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

Have you seen the Universe lately?

[nobspeople]

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

Have you seen the Universe lately?

Well, at least this world, for starters. But the 'why' is immaterial. Asking why someone would question something belies the reason for the question, the need and genuine nature of those asking and promotes the curiosity of those asking isn't relevant, necessary as well as discounts natural curiosity in lieu of the 'creator knows better so your POV is worthless' ideal.
Which, for me at least, is offensive.

[William]

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

Have you seen the Universe lately?

Well the part of it I am seeing does not invoke the idea of an unwise Creator-being.
Are you saying otherwise?

[William]

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

Have you seen the Universe lately?

Well, at least this world, for starters. But the 'why' is immaterial. Asking why someone would question something belies the reason for the question, the need and genuine nature of those asking and promotes the curiosity of those asking isn't relevant, necessary as well as discounts natural curiosity in lieu of the 'creator knows better so your POV is worthless' ideal.
Which, for me at least, is offensive.

Not sure, but it appears you are saying that my question offends you?

[nobspeople]

Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

Have you seen the Universe lately?

Well, at least this world, for starters. But the 'why' is immaterial. Asking why someone would question something belies the reason for the question, the need and genuine nature of those asking and promotes the curiosity of those asking isn't relevant, necessary as well as discounts natural curiosity in lieu of the 'creator knows better so your POV is worthless' ideal.
Which, for me at least, is offensive.

Not sure, but it appears you are saying that my question offends you?

It depends on how you use it, I suppose.
If it fit the criteria I listed, yes. If not, no.