Us

[nobspeople]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #70]

Numerology and pareidolia - nothing else.

Unsupported statements are neither useful to science or to good argument.

The statement is nothing more than a means in which to continue ignoring evidence and those who ignore evidence while demanding evidence are not really wanting evidence at all.

Whatever they are actually wanting, they already possess. Lack of belief in gods. They are welcome to use their intelligence as they see fit. That is their choice. But those who prove not to be interested in the evidence for gods, are those who can be ignored when they demand evidence for gods.

They are welcome to what they lack, as it is their personal choice to have the lack.

[LINK to relevant evidence re 'Us' and us.]

[theophile]

We thus have to 'do the science'.

The following is evidence;

Wisdom is evident in The Universe existing = 466
Humans were designed to have God-consciousness = 466
When I look at my art I am looking into a mirror = 466
Discovery is finding something that exists. = 466

The fact that these word-strings add up to the same value, and coherently support the ideas being presented, is evidence of a mindful/purposeful order about The Universe

What branch of science is this? Also, how does it deal with the contingency of language? Or the fact that these same statements, in different languages, will have different values? (Does the Creator of The Universe speak English?)

[William]

[Replying to theophile in post #72]

My Reply

[brunumb]

[Replying to William in post #67]

The fact that these word-strings add up to the same value, and coherently support the ideas being presented, is evidence of a mindful/purposeful order about The Universe

How so? Can you provide evidence of this, or is it simply your opinion?
Is this one of those secret 'hidden' gems of existence that only the lucky or intellectually elite can decipher?
Is this one of those things that's 'hidden' by this 'creator'?
If so, why is it hidden? What is this 'creator's' end game? Why does this 'creator' have to play these games and not simply come out and lay it on the table for all to see? Why the cat-n-mouse games?
Prove hos this is simply not pareidolia?

Funny how the creator's numerology applies to modern English language and probably not to any other stage of its evolution, or any other language for that matter. It's one of those ridiculous notions that spring up every decade or so. Where is the Bible Code now I wonder.

[William]

[Replying to brunumb in post #74]

Funny how the creator's numerology applies to modern English language and probably not to any other stage of its evolution, or any other language for that matter.

Do you know this for sure, or are you just opinionating?

[Difflugia]

Numerology and pareidolia - nothing else.

Unsupported statements are neither useful to science or to good argument.

The statement is nothing more than a means in which to continue ignoring evidence and those who ignore evidence while demanding evidence are not really wanting evidence at all.

Without mincing words, the evidence you're presenting is extremely poor. I explained earlier why any possible information from your method is overwhelmed by simple correlation with phrase length.

The following is evidence;

Wisdom is evident in The Universe existing = 466
Humans were designed to have God-consciousness = 466
When I look at my art I am looking into a mirror = 466
Discovery is finding something that exists. = 466

The fact that these word-strings add up to the same value, and coherently support the ideas being presented, is evidence of a mindful/purposeful order about The Universe ...the question then being;

It's also evidence that they're of similar length. A simple experiment in the post I linked gave us an average letter value of 13.7. The average length of a phrase that adds to 466 is 34 letters. Your phrases above have 36, 40, 37, and 37 letters. I wrote a script to generate your numbers for sentences and ran it on a few ebooks I have. here are some other phrases that add up to 466. See if you can find a pattern other than similar length.

• They just add ambiance to our spooky night hike.
• When the fiend’s grip loosened, I jumped to my feet.
• A lot of weird things have been happening around here.
• I explained the entire story to my parents.
• When I really thought about that, I was floored.
• Molly punched his arm hard enough to make him wince.
• Everyone appeared relaxed and informal, even jovial.

If there's any subjective similarity, I suspect it's because they're all from the same contemporary fantasy novel. Let's try The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

• I’ll sue the council for every penny it’s got!
• Arthur said brightly, “Actually I quite liked it.”
• A giant petit four lolloped off into the distance.
• “There is an art to flying," said Ford, "or rather a knack.”

How about an Amish romance? Don't judge.

• He was back in no time, but felt as if he’d been gone forever.
• Had he frightened her in the shack, the day of the blizzard?
• Except that his youngest slept in his arms.
• She could not speak for the sorrow choking her.
• Sara worried about leaving Pris, though, and Hannah.
• She unhitched her horse so it could graze and forage.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone:

• Couldn’t you do something about it, Dumbledore?
• It was as if Snape had started handing out sweets.
• He tried to get past that three-headed dog at Halloween!
• Now he was back to staring around for the Snitch.
• “You could have woken me up,” said Ron, crossly.
• Harry strained to catch what they were saying.
• He was pale and looked as though he was about to cry.
• They must show that Voldemort’s coming back.

I tried Medium Raw by the late, great Anthony Bourdain, but it seems that he prefers much longer sentences. I only got one:

• Sharing tables, as in classic fast-food food courts?

You've got no defined method for determining similarity and no control. "I know it when I see it" is fine for when you're developing a hypothesis, but it's insufficient for a test. Things like clinical trials sometimes rely on subjects reporting their own symptoms, but self-reporting is considered to have poor reliability. Such data are only considered at all valuable when the experiment is double-blinded and well-controlled.

An example setup would be to generate lists with software (blind 1) where both the numbers are the same and where they're not (control). Give the lists to someone that doesn't know which are which (blind 2) and have them rate the similarity of the phrases in each group. See if there's a correlation when the numbers are the same, but that is absent when they're not.

[William]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #76]

My Reply

[myth-one.com]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

Two type of bodies exist -- natural and spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Mankind is the only natural bodied being capable of speaking and understanding languages.

But the "us" in Genesis 1:26 cannot be referring to any man because the verse is spoken prior to the existence of man:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .

Likewise, it cannot include Jesus because Jesus was a man.

So the "us" must refer exclusively to members of the spiritual bodied world. This includes God the Father and God the Word according to the Bible:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It can also include other members of the spiritual world -- such as angels and Satan.