Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

[Justin108]

They now insist that Jesus did return but he is invisible.

If so, how would they know he has returned?

If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14) and we believe it started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/


JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?

2. Was 1914 unique in this regard? For example, Luke 21 mentions "wars and uprisings". In what way is 1914 unique in terms of wars and uprisings?

3. According to (my understanding of) Jehovah's Witnesses' claims, Jesus' rule from 1914 is hidden and behind the scenes. His rule is invisible to most of us. Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from the start? Or did they initially believe that Jesus' rule will be clearly apparent to everyone, and only after 1914 when no Jesus was to be found did they change their conclusion to "well Jesus must be doing it in heaven where no one can see"?

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914? Or do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?

[TRANSPONDER]

Ok. That'll do. I probably didn't read all you wrote or can't recall it,and I'm certainly not going to read it all again. But it doesn't matter if you now say that you make no claim or have no case but Faith or that's what you were saying all along, because that's what you say now; you have nothing but Faith in the 2nd coming, End times and Bible prophecy unfolding through the events of the last 100 years.

I knew it, pretty much and it'll do for me.

[brunumb]

I'm saying that to claim that Bible prophecy is playing out right now, you have to show some better reason than just the usual stuff happening that always did.

I have made no claim apart from the claim that I have a faith based belief. Did you not read when I said ...

PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."

• We believe Jesus became King unseen in heaven in 1914. That is based on bible chronology.

• We believe Jesus will return to destroy the wicked at some future unknown date.

...you have to show some better reason than just the usual stuff happening that always did.

I don't have to show you anything at all.

There is no rule that says anyone has to prove anything. If someone insists you must prove something, challenge them where is it a requirement on the forum that something needs to be proved.

I have made my faith statements based on the bible*, take it or leave it.

All of that just makes your contributions irrelevant and essentially worthless in a debate setting. Just expressing my opinion by the way.

[JehovahsWitness]

All of that just makes your contributions irrelevant and essentially worthless in a debate setting. Just expressing my opinion by the way.

I'm not here to debate your opinion, like belly buttons, everyone has one. If that is all you have to contribute to this discussion I have but to wish you a very excellent week.


JW

[brunumb]

I'm not here to debate your opinion, like belly buttons, everyone has one. If that is all you have to contribute to this discussion I have but to wish you a very excellent week.

You do not appear to be here to debate at all, merely express your opinions. Why should anyone care what JWs (or any other extremist religious group for that matter) believe? None of it can be supported and relies on faith in the musings of ancient, ignorant people.

When a prophecy fails, just double down and turn it into some sort of success. Like Armageddon, the ultimate destructive event, gets turned into a so-called cause for happiness.

Feel the love and happiness:

[JehovahsWitness]

Just expressing my opinion by the way.

You do not appear to be here to debate at all, merely express your opinions.

I see.

Just expressing my opinion by the way.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.



JW

[TRANSPONDER]

It's another ploy that is very familiar with: 'Not arguin' just sayin' Which,being interpreted, meaneth 'I am just here to preach without having to answer any questions.' I've never accepted that on any board;anyone who expresses their opinions on a board (especially a discussion -board), cannot be called on to back up their claim, if only because people legitimately want to know what's the case for crediting this or that claim. Just saying 'Faith' is no back -up at all and while it is what it is, it would have saved time to say so at the start.

[brunumb]

Just expressing my opinion by the way.

You do not appear to be here to debate at all, merely express your opinions.

I see.

Just expressing my opinion by the way.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

This forum could really use a sarcasm font.

[TRANSPONDER]

Well,the eye rolling and smirking wink do pretty good, especially in view of claims that just normal stuff that happens by all appearances naturally is actually God's plans panning out.

[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]

Your dates have no basis of truth. Are you sure he began ruling

[TRANSPONDER]

It's not uncommon for the proponent to make confident assertions as in the OP

"JehovahsWitness wrote:
...
If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14) and we believe it started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/"

Aside 'we believe', it makes definite assertions or claims starting with the talk on the mount of Olives (about the end times), linking it with later events apparently with heavily 'interpreted' prophecy and good old Daniel with some calculations based on Revelation.

Well, 'wait and see', as they say. I may quote from my memoirs (the printable bits) and say the Evangelists got to me as a teenager listening to pirated pop (yes, in my young day, rock and pop was banned from radio) and the sponsoring evangelist got me curious enough to send for their literature. It was very dubious with claims about the prophecy of Tyre being true and the 'Darkest Africa' apologetic, claiming that Russians were secretly tuning into their advertisements with clandestine radios while a lookout watched out for the KGB (1) and the predictions (drawing heavily on Ezekiel and discoveries after WWII) ..I shrugged and waited for the predicted day. 1967 I think it was. Same with 1984, and indeed 2000. I am now of the 'Fool me once' school. And I have a particular dislike of doom - prophets, especially that smarmy exhibition - praying creep, smiling as he tells you of your death who preached the US splitting apart during an eclipse.

That aside, After 100 years of normal stuff, while you can't 100% prove that some divine plan isn't working out, there is no reason at all to see it as prophecy coming to pass and every reason to think: "If there was no god there, how would it look different?" Cue finding your car keys as a miracle.

People are not stupid (unless they want to be) and claims without a shred of decent evidence, and a string of failed claims based on a book that either denies science or tries to fit it and claims it's 'science in the Bible' plus a debunked Nativity and a Resurrection no better, and the rest of the Book very dubious (that is, once the Bible critics are given a voice) anyone who believes the Bible, Prophecy or Christianity (at all) has been indoctrinated. Otherwise, why would you have Faith - not just belief on evidence but evidence denying Faith - in something with no back -up, as our pal JW has made painfully evident?

(1) the 'Darkest Africa' apologetic was also used in UFO -claims. some story about a crashed saucer or underground ET control centre would be set in Russia (usually linked to the Tunguska event) because nobody could check up. It was a revelation to see how religious and UFO apologetics worked exactly the same way.