How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

[otseng]

From the On the Bible being inerrant thread:

How can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?

The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.

For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?

While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.

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[otseng]

The Brooklyn Papyrus is from the 13th Dynasty that contains a list of Canaanite servants, several of which are Hebraic names.

The Brooklyn Papyrus 35.1446 is the modern term for an ancient Egyptian document that is now in the Brooklyn Museum (New York).

The content appears to date from the reign of Amenemhat III into the 13th Dynasty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_Brooklyn_35.1446

The most important text recounts the efforts of a Thirteenth Dynasty Theban noblewoman named Senebtisi to establish legal ownership of ninety-five household servants, whose names indicate that forty-five were of Asiatic origin. The presence of so many foreigners in a single household suggests that the Asiatic population was increasing rapidly in Thirteenth Dynasty Egypt.

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencoll ... jects/3369

The name Šp-ra is found in a list of slaves in Egypt during the reign of Sobekhotep III (around 1745 BCE[13]). This list is on Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446, in the Brooklyn Museum. The museum states that "Scholars assume that this is a hieroglyphic transliteration of the Hebrew name Shiphra."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiphrah_and_Puah

Approximately 30 of the servants have names identified as from the Semitic language family (Hebrew is a Semitic language), but even more relevant to the Exodus story is that several of these servants, up to ten, actually have specifically Hebrew names. The Hebrew names found on the list include: Menahema, a feminine form of Menahem (2 Kings 15:14); Ashera, a feminine form of Asher, the name of one of the sons of Jacob (Genesis 30:13); Shiphrah, the name of one of the Hebrew midwives prior to the Exodus (Exodus 1:15); ‘Aqoba, a name appearing to be a feminine form of Jacob or Yaqob, the name of the patriarch (Genesis 25:26); ‘Ayyabum, the name of the patriarch Job or Ayob (Job 1:1); Sekera, which is a feminine name either similar to Issakar, a name of one of the sons of Jacob, or the feminine form of it (Genesis 30:18); Dawidi-huat a compound name utilizing the name David and meaning “my beloved is he” (1 Samuel 16:13); Esebtw, a name derived from the Hebrew word eseb meaning “herb” (Deuteronomy 32:2); Hayah-wr another compound name composed of Hayah or Eve and meaning “bright life” (Genesis 3:20); and finally the name Hy’b’rw, which appears to be an Egyptian transcription of Hebrew (Genesis 39:14).

https://apxaioc.com/?p=21

[TRANSPONDER]

On the back of the document is a list of servants and Asians sold by a woman named Senebtisi, apparently the widow of Resseneb. In particular, the many Asian names on this list aroused the interest of researchers and shows the high proportion of foreigners in Egypt in the 13th Dynasty.[Wiki]

The problem about reading Canaanite or Semitic as 'Israelite' is like your 'Israelite house' of the claim (that I had presented on a former Forum) of ostracon 'notes' found at the Egyptian -owned Timnah mines as 'proto Hebrew' which are actually Canaanite. What appears to be the case is Canaanite writing, names and some customs (including architecture, perhaps) adopted by Hebrews amongst others and Biblical apologetics putting the cart before the horse or having the tail wag the dog and claim these Semitic features to be 'Hebrew/Israelite. There's also the Interpretation of Semitic immigrants or traders in wall -paintings as 'Israelites' when there is no evidence for this.

Those names, (which in Egyptian writing can be open to interpretation of pronunciation) are perhaps too eagerly Interpreted as 'Israelite'. The Wiki article does not make any such claim.

It might be instructive to consider Moab, Ammon and Edom and their cultural features to see whether they also show these Canaanite borrowings. They might not (which would support your case). I'd point out that a couple of the names of Hyksos kings who really don't support the 'Israelite' Thesis (your three color coat, Syrian war - God cylinder - seal and argument from 4 -room architecture coming to little in the end) resemble Hebrew names and have of course been wagged about as supporting the 'Israel in Egypt' thesis.

It also strikes me that it is not stated that these are even slaves, let alone slaves employed in brick -making (never mind sabotaging their own building materials by depriving the Hebrews of straw) but may well be hired and paid servants. The point being that even if Israel even existed in the 13th dynasty as a place where you'd have immigrant workers from, that does not in itself support the Exodus even as an event with Biblical 'spin', let alone the dubious and magical events claimed.

You have much to do, and three layers of much in order to substantiate the Exodus.

[TRANSPONDER]

Getting a bit more information on this particular papyrus the recto has a list of escapees from a labor -camp. The verso is the list of persons 'owned'

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencoll ... jects/3369

by Senebti. Which does sound like slaves. So Given that slavery was common at this time (everywhere) but also that public works do not appear to have been carried out by slaves, the papyrus does suggest Semitic persons owned or imprisoned by Egyptians. It remains to show that these are Hebrews or are only being made to look like it.

[TRANSPONDER]

L:ooking at Edom;
Genesis 36:31-43 lists the kings of Edom "before any Israelite king reigned":

These are the kings who ruled in the land of Edom before a king ruled the children of Israel. And Bela ben Beor ruled in Edom, and the name of his city was Dinhabah. And Bela died, and Jobab ben Zerah from Bozrah ruled in his place. And Jobab died, and Husham of the land of Temani ruled in his place. And Husham died, and Hadad ben Bedad, who struck Midian in the field of Moab, ruled in his place, and the name of his city was Avith. And Hadad died, and Samlah of Masrekah ruled in his place. And Samlah died, and Saul of Rehoboth on the river ruled in his place. And Saul died, and Baal-hanan ben Achbor ruled in his place. And Baal-hanan ben Achbor died, and Hadar ruled in his place, and the name of his city was Pau, and his wife's name was Mehetabel bat Matred bat Mezahab. And these are the names of the clans of Esau by their families, by their places, by their names: clan Timnah, clan Alvah, clan Jetheth, clan Aholibamah, clan Elah, clan Pinon, clan Kenaz, clan Teman, clan Mibzar, clan Magdiel, clan Iram.[Wiki]

You might wish to consider whether any of those Edomite names could be made to look like Hebrew names.

[TRANSPONDER]

Canaanite names are a bit tricky as many are kings (who would tend to copy Mesopotamian ruler names) but a look at 'Canaanote 'baby names' which can't be copied and pasted suggest that some could look rather Hebrewish.

I'll say this much - if one hasn't heard the counter - arguments, these apologetics for Hebrews in Egypt (aside for 'evidence' for the Exodus) can look quite convincing. More so than the argument from Babel and the Mesopotamian origins of Maya architecture, which I have to doubt would find many takers, other than amongsts 'alternative history' enthusiasts.

[TRANSPONDER]

Manetho appears to represent the Pharonic 'spin' on the Hyksos. Archaeology seems to indicate that it was an immigration, not an invasion, though also it reflects the wars that the Hyksos picked with the Theban dynasty, and, while Canaanites probably stayed under Egyptian rule, 'Foreign' rule was defeated and ejected. So Manetho is not wrong in his view of the history. But it is evident that Josephus has tried to tweak the story to make it look like the Hyksos were Hebrews. There is no such justification for that.

Note that the only account we have of Manetho is from Josephus, so on what basis do you say that Hyksos did not include Hebrews? How can you tell what Josephus added to Manetho's account if his is the only historical account?

I do not have to prove that the Hebrews were not part of the Hyksos; you have to prove that they were.

Nobody has to "prove" anything. We only present our evidence and what best explains the facts and see what is the most plausible explanation.

You are not dumb; you know (or should) that my not being able to disprove that some Hebrews may have been amongst the Hyksos does not somehow makes a case for Exodus.

Again, I'm not asking you to "disprove" anything. All I'm asking for is counter-evidence to what I've presented.

Do you not Get this? Everyone else does, I would bet your credibility on it.

No, I don't get what you are trying to say. If anyone else gets it, please explain to me what Transponder is saying.

That looksgood

Your point?

I'll look into Manetho. As you say,there ought to be reasons to suppose that Josephus altered it. I would imagine it's because we have the Egyptian etymology of Hyksos which is NOT 'shepherd kings' but foreign kings, so that indicates that Josephus altered it.

As for the rest of your post, dishonesty and rubbish. You (and everyone else) will know that 'proof' means presenting good evidence. Not (in the self -serving Christian apologist usage 'in your face real time as it actually happened proof.Just the case that best fits the evidence.

Your memory is very short. The seal of Khamudi shows what I call the 'water bars' in a vertical position, whereas it is horizontal under the Bull. This suggests that it is symbolic of some royal or divine image particular to Hyksos kings and not (as our taliss -wearing apologist argued) a symbol of a Hebrew tribe. The point being that the cylinder seal works better as a Hyksos item than a Hebrew one.

[TRANSPONDER]

More evidence of the story of Joseph...

To prepare for a famine, it would make sense to build canals. We see Senusret III built major canals during his reign.

"Senusret III cleared a navigable canal through the first cataract of the Nile River"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senusret_III

"There are a number of texts from the reign of Senusret III that mention canals the king either had built or refurbished, with the most significant being a canal that bypassed the first cataract of the Nile River just south of the modern city of Aswan."
https://dailyhistory.org/Was_there_an_A ... Suez_Canal

He also started on the infamous Canal of the Pharaohs.





"At least as far back as Aristotle there have been suggestions that perhaps as early as the 12th Dynasty, Pharaoh Senusret III (1878–1839 BC), called Sesostris by the Greeks, may have started a canal joining the River Nile with the Red Sea."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_of_the_Pharaohs

"Among his greatest accomplishments was the construction of the Canal of the Pharaohs, which served as a shining glory of his administration."
https://www.timelessmyths.com/characters/senusret-iii/

"The so-called Canal of the Pharaohs was first dug during the reign of Pharaoh Senusret III around 1850 BC. That canal ran from the Red Sea to the Nile River, but did not reach the Mediterranean."
https://www.sacyr.com/en/-/el-canal-que ... s-faraones

Another canal built during this time was Bahr Yusuf (the Joseph Canal).

"In prehistoric times, the canal was a natural offshoot of the Nile which created a lake to the west during high floods. Beginning with the 12th dynasty, the waterway was enlarged and the Fayyum was developed to enlarge Lake Moeris."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_Yussef

"We do know that between 1850 and 1650 BC a canal was built to keep the branches of the Nile permanently open, enabling water to fill Lake Quaran and keep the land fertile. This canal was so effective that it still successfully functions today. There is no record of who built the canal, but for thousands of years it has only been known by one name. In Arabic it's the Bahr Yusef. This translates into English as The Waterway of Joseph."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religion ... seph.shtml

"It is an astonishing feat of engineering which to this day is known throughout Egypt as the ‘Bahr Yusuf’ – the Joseph Canal. This has always been its name. Moreover, the people of Egypt are perfectly happy to tell you that it was built by the Joseph of the Bible who once was Pharaoh’s ‘Grand Vizier'"
https://www.israel365news.com/138577/a- ... -this-day/

Another evidence of a drought during the time of Joseph is ice cores in Mt Kilimanjaro.

"Studies in 'ice cores' found in Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania - the mountain which supplies the Nile with its water - have revealed that a drought did take place around 3600 years ago - around the time the Bible sets Joseph's story."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religion ... seph.shtml

Senusret III also built a series of forts with massive granaries.

"Like his earlier 12th Dynasty predecessors, Senusret III now established a second series of forts along the Second Cataract. As with the town of Lahun, these forts reflect the all-pervasive presence of the central administration. The forts themselves were elaborate constructions, with wide mudbrick walls, towers, bastions and other architectural elements to permit an easy defense of the buildings. The interiors of the fortresses were carefully laid out, with a symmetrical grid of streets flanked by housing of different sizes for the various strata of society garrisoned there. Included were cultic places, workshops areas and the ubiquitous granaries, which in some cases reached surprisingly large proportions."
http://what-when-how.com/archaeology-of ... ent-egypt/

"The interior of the fortress has streets paved with stone, large granaries, buildings thought to be an administrative center and a governor's house, and barracks."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uronarti

"Inside the fortress, excavations continued in the granary. After its administrative part had been explored in 2017, work now focused on one of the six storage chambers. Flotation of the excavated fill produced rich organic samples, 14C dates of which fall into the 12th Dynasty and the early 18th Dynasty. Species so far identified include wheat, barley and watermelon."
https://www.ees.ac.uk/shalfak

Gen 41:34-35
34 Let Pharaoh do [this], and let him appoint officers over the land, and take up the fifth part of the land of Egypt in the seven plenteous years.
35 And let them gather all the food of those good years that come, and lay up corn under the hand of Pharaoh, and let them keep food in the cities.

Money throughout Egypt were flowing into the central treasury.

"Resources previously circulating in the provinces were now presumably diverted toward the central treasury and subsequently redistributed to the now expanded civil service."
http://what-when-how.com/archaeology-of ... ent-egypt/

Gen 47:14 And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, for the corn which they bought: and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's house.

At these forts, trade was conducted with many exotic products.

"Interestingly, during that time, Egypt imported and exported many products, such as oils, ivory, pottery, and tiger and elephant skins."
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4/51 ... r-the-Nile

Gen 47:16-17
16 And Joseph said, Give your cattle; and I will give you for your cattle, if money fail.
17 And they brought their cattle unto Joseph: and Joseph gave them bread [in exchange] for horses, and for the flocks, and for the cattle of the herds, and for the asses: and he fed them with bread for all their cattle for that year.

And as mentioned before, power of the nomarchs diminished.

"The other major event of Senusret III’s reign is the almost complete disappearance of the great nomarchical families."
http://what-when-how.com/archaeology-of ... ent-egypt/

Gen 47:25 And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants.

Senusret III also had a good relationship with the Egyptian priests.

"Senusret III was a fighter, but behind him was a religious persona. He humbly worshipped ancient gods and promoted a peaceful relationship between pharaohs and priests."
https://www.timelessmyths.com/characters/senusret-iii/

Gen 47:22 Only the land of the priests bought he not; for the priests had a portion [assigned them] of Pharaoh, and did eat their portion which Pharaoh gave them: wherefore they sold not their lands.

Gen 47:26 And Joseph made it a law over the land of Egypt unto this day, [that] Pharaoh should have the fifth [part]; except the land of the priests only, [which] became not Pharaoh's.

Given all of these and prior alignments, I believe the indirect evidence has remarkable correspondence with the Biblical account.

It is a truly -strained apologetic. Like a Pharaoh's canal - building project, internal reorganisation, good relations with the Priests (ask Akhenaten what happened when you made enemies of them) and trade, claim that Joseph suggested it all and thus you prove the Bible.

[TRANSPONDER]

P. s. Look...I could say 'Joseph said unto Pharaoh,'...paint ye the walls of your hose afresh in at least three colors..' or 'And Joseph "Suggested" to Pharaoh, who dids't everything he was told, to lay out gardens...' and I could find evidence of painted houses, palaces and temples, and palace gardens. That you can point out all sorts of claims for Joseph (even aside that the Bible writers knew of things the Egyptians did and ascribed it all to Joseph) is no evidence for Genesis being correct. I'd bet you could find the same claims fitting a king of Babylon or Assyria, if Genesis had said so.

[TRANSPONDER]

edited a bit these extracts from the Extant work of Manetho, compared withe Josephus shows haor the latter tweaked it to try to fit in with the Torah -narrative. Underlinings mine.

Manetho on the Hyksos

Manetho, from his book "Aegyptiaca"., frag. 42, 1.75-79.2

Tutimaeus [0]. In his reign, for what cause I know not, a blast of God smote us; and unexpectedly, from the regions of the East, invaders of obscure race marched in confidence of victory against our land. By main force they easily overpowered the rulers of the land, they then burned our cities ruthlessly, razed to the ground the temples of the gods, and treated all the natives with a cruel hostility, massacring some and leading into slavery the wives and children of others. Finally, they appointed as king one of their number whose name was Salitis. He had his seat at Memphis, levying tribute from Upper and Lower Egypt, and leaving garrisons behind in the most advantageous positions. Above all, he fortified the district to the east, foreseeing that the Assyrians, as they grew stronger, would one day covet and attack his kingdom.

In the Saite [Sethroite] nome he found a city very favorably situated on the east of the Bubastite branch of the Nile, and called Auaris (= Avaris ) after an ancient religious tradition. This place he rebuilt and fortified with massive walls, planting there a garrison of as many as 240,000 heavy-armed men to guard his frontier. Here he would come in summertime, partly to serve out rations and pay his troops, partly to train them carefully in maneuvers and so strike terror into foreign tribes.

Josephus Flavius quoting passages concerning the Hyksos from
Manetho's Aegyptiaca


...F

Flavius Josephus: from his book "Against Apion"

(Slightly different, longer version)

Book 1, section 73
Under a king of ours named Timaus (Tutimaeus) God became angry with us, I know not how, and there came, after a surprising manner, men of obscure birth from the east, and had the temerity to invade our country, and easily conquered it by force, as we did not do battle against them. After they had subdued our rulers, they burnt down our cities, and destroyed the temples of the gods, and treated the inhabitants most cruelly; killing some and enslaving their wives and their children.

Then they made one of their own king. His name was Salatis [1]; he lived at Memphis, and both the upper and lower regions had to pay tribute to him. He installed garrisons in places that were the most suited for them. His main aim was to make the eastern parts safe, expecting the Assyrians, at the height of their power, to covet his kingdom, and invade it. In the Saite Nome there was a city very proper for this purpose, by the Bubastic arm of the Nile. With regard to a certain theological notion it was called Avaris. He rebuilt and strengthened this city by surrounding it with walls. and by stationing a large garrison of two hundred and forty thousand armed men there. Salitis came there in the summer, to gather corn in order to pay his soldiers, and to exercise his men, and thus to terrify foreigners.

After a reign of thirteen years, he was followed by one whose name was Beon [2], who ruled for for forty-four years. After him reigned Apachnas [3] for thirty-six years and seven months. After him Apophis [4] was king for sixty-one years, followed by Janins for fifty years and one month. After all these Assis reigned during forty-nine years and two months. These six were their first kings. They all along waged war against the Egyptians, and wanted to destroy them to the very roots.

"These people, whom we have called kings before, and shepherds too, and their descendants," as he [5] says, "held Egypt for five hundred and eleven years. Then," he says, "the kings of Thebes and the other parts of Egypt rose against the shepherds, and a long and terrible war was fought between them." He says further, "By a king, named Alisphragmuthosis [6], the shepherds were subdued, and were driven out of the most parts of Egypt and shut up in a place named Avaris, measuring ten thousand acres." Manetho says, "The shepherds had built a wall surrounding this city, which was large and strong, in order to keep all their possessions and plunder in a place of strength.

Tethmosis [7], son of Alisphragmuthosis, attempted to take the city by force and by siege with four hundred and eighty thousand men surrounding it. But he despaired of taking the place by siege, and concluded a treaty with them, that they should leave Egypt, and go, without any harm coming to them, wherever they wished. After the conclusion of the treaty they left with their families and chattels, not fewer than two hundred and forty thousand people, and crossed the desert into Syria. Fearing the Assyrians, who dominated over Asia at that time, they built a city in the country which we now call Judea. It was large enough to contain this great number of men and was called Jerusalem.



Book 1, section 93

I shall quote Manetho again, and what he writes as to the order of the times in this case. He says "After this people or shepherds [8] had left Egypt to go to Jerusalem, Tethmosis [2], who drove them out, was king of Egypt and reigned for twenty five years and four months, and then died; ..."

Book 1, section 227

He [5] writes these words: "Those sent to work in the quarries lived miserably for a long while, and the king was asked to set apart the city Avaris, which the shepherds had left, for their habitation and protection; and he granted them their wish.

I very much doubt that Manetho had said any such thing about the Hyksos being shepherd -kings or leaving for Jerusalem to found Judea, and I'm sure Assyria didn't even exist at the time. Like the other Aramaic states it expanded after the bronze age collapse.

[otseng]

The problem about reading Canaanite or Semitic as 'Israelite' is like your 'Israelite house' of the claim (that I had presented on a former Forum) of ostracon 'notes' found at the Egyptian -owned Timnah mines as 'proto Hebrew' which are actually Canaanite.

We agree they are Canaanite. However, Canaanite is a nebulous term. It does not refer to a specific ethnic group, but rather signifies a group of people where they came from.

"The word Canaanites serves as an ethnic catch-all term covering various indigenous populations—both settled and nomadic-pastoral groups—throughout the regions of the southern Levant or Canaan."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

But certainly Israelite is included as a Canaanite. It'd be difficult to argue if someone is a Canaanite, but not Israelite, since I would argue they share similar characteristics, particularly at this point in time.

Those names, (which in Egyptian writing can be open to interpretation of pronunciation) are perhaps too eagerly Interpreted as 'Israelite'. The Wiki article does not make any such claim.

I don't claim that either, but some names are Semitic.

I'd point out that a couple of the names of Hyksos kings who really don't support the 'Israelite' Thesis

The Bible never mentions any Israelite as being a Pharaoh and I don't claim it either.

It also strikes me that it is not stated that these are even slaves, let alone slaves employed in brick -making (never mind sabotaging their own building materials by depriving the Hebrews of straw) but may well be hired and paid servants.

Of course, they were not enslaved as this point to make bricks yet I will post later about the time they became slaves making bricks.

The point being that even if Israel even existed in the 13th dynasty as a place where you'd have immigrant workers from, that does not in itself support the Exodus even as an event with Biblical 'spin',

I have not gotten to the point of the exodus out of Egypt yet. I'll post about that later.

Which does sound like slaves. So Given that slavery was common at this time (everywhere) but also that public works do not appear to have been carried out by slaves, the papyrus does suggest Semitic persons owned or imprisoned by Egyptians. It remains to show that these are Hebrews or are only being made to look like it.

Yes, there's no evidence public works (and the bricks to make those public works) were made by slaves at this point in time. This will come later.

You might wish to consider whether any of those Edomite names could be made to look like Hebrew names.

Edomites are descendents of Esau, so they would be close cousins with the Israelites.

"The Hebrew word Edom means "red", and the Hebrew Bible relates it to the name of its founder, Esau, the elder son of the Hebrew patriarch Isaac, because he was born 'red all over'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom

Canaanite names are a bit tricky as many are kings (who would tend to copy Mesopotamian ruler names) but a look at 'Canaanote 'baby names' which can't be copied and pasted suggest that some could look rather Hebrewish.

In terms of the written language of the Canaanites, it's all related to Hebrew, which I will post on later.

I'll look into Manetho. As you say,there ought to be reasons to suppose that Josephus altered it. I would imagine it's because we have the Egyptian etymology of Hyksos which is NOT 'shepherd kings' but foreign kings, so that indicates that Josephus altered it.

Actually, I would agree that the Hyksos were foreign kings. That is, they were not Egyptian, but Canaanite people. I don't know if Josephus claims all the Hyksos were Hebrew, but I would not claim that. I believe only a subset of the Hyksos were.

The seal of Khamudi shows what I call the 'water bars' in a vertical position, whereas it is horizontal under the Bull. This suggests that it is symbolic of some royal or divine image particular to Hyksos kings and not (as our taliss -wearing apologist argued) a symbol of a Hebrew tribe. The point being that the cylinder seal works better as a Hyksos item than a Hebrew one.

Nobody really knows what the "water bars" mean. And anybody can assign any meaning to any particular symbol, whether it's is a bull, boat, snake, antelope, lion, etc. But, what is more convincing is a narrative that explains all the images on the cylinder in a single coherent message. The Biblical account does that, unlike other theories, which have disjointed explanations for individual symbols.

It is a truly -strained apologetic. Like a Pharaoh's canal - building project, internal reorganisation, good relations with the Priests (ask Akhenaten what happened when you made enemies of them) and trade, claim that Joseph suggested it all and thus you prove the Bible.

This is simply an assertion made without any counter-evidence. Again, to refute my claims, counter-evidence is required.

P. s. Look...I could say 'Joseph said unto Pharaoh,'...paint ye the walls of your hose afresh in at least three colors..' or 'And Joseph "Suggested" to Pharaoh, who dids't everything he was told, to lay out gardens...' and I could find evidence of painted houses, palaces and temples, and palace gardens. That you can point out all sorts of claims for Joseph (even aside that the Bible writers knew of things the Egyptians did and ascribed it all to Joseph) is no evidence for Genesis being correct. I'd bet you could find the same claims fitting a king of Babylon or Assyria, if Genesis had said so.

It is the preponderance of evidence presented that makes the case the Biblical account is true. If it was just one or two things plucked out of Egyptian history to support the Bible, yes, I agree it'd be a weak argument. But as more evidence are presented that matches the Bible, it strengthens my case.