The Prayer Challenge

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chrispalasz
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The Prayer Challenge

Post #1

Post by chrispalasz »

If you're a seeker of God and you know you're not good and that you can never stop doing wrong - Jesus Christ can help you! If you want to know Him and Trust Him, He is willing! He accepts the broken into His arms. His Grace is FREE and He asks NOTHING in return for it!

Pray to Him, right now. Close your eyes and humble yourself before Him. Cry out to Him:

"Lord Jesus, you are the salvation of my life. You are Creator of the Universe. Touch me with your Grace, Lord, the Grace of your Salvation. Father in Heaven, I accept the sacrifice of Jesus' death on the cross for my sins against you. Thank you so much for being patient with me and showing me your mercy. I desire to follow you and reflect your goodness and love. Touch me with your healing hand and fill me with the Holy Spirit. Thank you, God, for sending your son Jesus to the cross for us, your children. Guide me through this life and leave not one of your children behind. Let your Will be done. Father, I pray in the name of your Son Jesus Christ. Amen."

Many people who are not Christians want proof that God exists, and they want it from every Christian they talk to.

Christians cannot provide proof that God exists. God can. We can provide reasoning, but ultimately you need to seek God. All you have to do, if you truly seek God, is to pray to Him. Repent for your sins and cry out to Him. Use the prayer above, or a similar one. If you truly seek God, He is faithful and He will answer you!

Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not? Why do you come here to discuss religion? What do you hope to gain from this discussion forum? Are you trying to convince people that God does not exist?

Christians: Do you believe that through logical reasoning or debate that you can convince a non-Christian that God exists as Jesus Christ?
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chrispalasz
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Post #31

Post by chrispalasz »

All right guys, listen for a moment. If you don't actually want to take the prayer challenge, then don't. Don't simply take it because I asked you to. I'm only asking the people that want to. I am quite positive that there are a number of people here and elsewhere that would repeat these words as if they were magic just so they could say they did it and announce that it doesn't work.

The object of the prayer challenge is not to repeat the words outloud so that you and God can hear them. Hearing them won't do anything... it's where your heart is during the prayer. So if you read the words and if you say the words and if your heart is there... do it; give your life to Christ.

The same way that many people can read the Bible but not so many can obviously understand it. And what's the point of reading if not to understand? Similarly, what's the point in praying when you don't mean it?

God knows when you're serious. I should hope that you know when you're serious.

And potwalloper I think you, for one, know whether or not you were serious. You may be looking for me to discern that for you, but it is clear that I don't need to; and this is not a question.

Second, I wasn't talking about Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle. I am pretty certain of my statement. I'm going to ask a physicist to get more answers and I will get back you all of you on the subject. I've read too many physics books to recall which one of them that information came from, including A Brief History of Time and a number of assorted books by R. P. Feynman.

Sit tight. I'll get you some confirmation on the matter.
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"Beware the sound of one hand clapping"

"Evolution must be the best-known yet worst-understood of all scientific theories."

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Post #32

Post by juliod »

I am quite positive that there are a number of people here and elsewhere that would repeat these words as if they were magic just so they could say they did it and announce that it doesn't work.
Oh dear, oh dear. I think I was just called a fraud and a liar.

OTOH, even if you think gravity is a lie, all the coins you toss will still fall to the ground. For true things it isn't necessary that you pre-believe them.

DanZ

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chrispalasz
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Post #33

Post by chrispalasz »

juliod: Oh dear, oh dear. I think I was just called a fraud and a liar.
I didn't say it; you did.
juliod: OTOH, even if you think gravity is a lie,
Gravity isn't a lie. God obviously established this world with order. Everything follows that order unless God decides otherwise.
juliod: all the coins you toss will still fall to the ground.
Oh, I completely agree. The probability that a coin would not fall to the ground is very small. According to physics, it would take more years than science claims the human race has been around. According to me, it would take an act of God... and first He would have to have a reason to do it.
juliod: For true things it isn't necessary that you pre-believe them.
It isn't necessary to pre-believe something in order for it to be a truth? Oh, well I certainly agree! The Truth that Jesus Christ is God exists whether or not you pre-believe it.
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"Beware the sound of one hand clapping"

"Evolution must be the best-known yet worst-understood of all scientific theories."

lilspazzie004
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Howdy

Post #34

Post by lilspazzie004 »

Nyril wrote:
Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not?
I know this is the last part, but I'll cover it first. I declined because your test is entirely without merit. I would indeed go so far as to say it is worthless in this capacity.
If you're a seeker of God and you know you're not good and that you can never stop doing wrong - Jesus Christ can help you!
Will he drive me to rehab? Will he help me out with my bills? Or will he give me an imaginary person I can talk to when I feel lonely? For some reason, it seems like the last choice is the most likely.
If you want to know Him and Trust Him, He is willing!
In what way?
He accepts the broken into His arms.
Is there a particular reason he wouldn't?
His Grace is FREE and He asks NOTHING in return for it!
Like heck. We've got time/money/energy that he requires to believe in him, as well as cures for things we weren't aware were broken (ie, sin).
Pray to Him, right now. Close your eyes and humble yourself before Him. Cry out to Him:
I don't know, why don't you close your eyes and humble yourself before the Invisible Pink Unicorn? Cry out to her. Pray to her right now.
If you think that is madness, why should I treat your challenge any differently?
Many people who are not Christians want proof that God exists, and they want it from every Christian they talk to.
You've got a blood-hungry deity that spends the first half of your holy book killing off the population of the planet at will. For the second half, it decides that it needs the ultimate blood sacrifice (Jesus) to change its mind about a rule that it put into place, and then goes on to require you believe in such or else it will torture you for all eternity.

It may just be me, but I'd like a little more then simply, "because".
Christians cannot provide proof that God exists.
Wow. I'll keep this in mind.
God can.
In what way?
We can provide reasoning, but ultimately you need to seek God. All you have to do, if you truly seek God, is to pray to Him. Repent for your sins and cry out to Him. Use the prayer above, or a similar one. If you truly seek God, He is faithful and He will answer you!
So. You need to accept the conclusion before you can see proof of it?
Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not? Why do you come here to discuss religion? What do you hope to gain from this discussion forum? Are you trying to convince people that God does not exist?
Lets go over it.

1. It's not a test.
2. No conditions are given for success.
3. No conditions are given for failure.
4. Nothing is actually being tested, as far as I can tell.
5. No results are discernable.
It is simple. The test is for you accept Jesus Chirst as lord and give yourself to the lord. Then pray for anything for something and see if he answers it. As a matter of fact do several times. But once he makes his presence know to you then don't test him anymore cuz itz wrong to test God. And if I'm wrong you have nothing to loose. Just think of it of like when you were a kid and you said Bloody Mary 5 times in front a mirror in the dark, but nothing happen. Give God chance will ya? Much luv, Peace out :)

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Post #35

Post by mrmufin »

GreenLight311 wrote:All right guys, listen for a moment. If you don't actually want to take the prayer challenge, then don't. Don't simply take it because I asked you to. I'm only asking the people that want to. I am quite positive that there are a number of people here and elsewhere that would repeat these words as if they were magic just so they could say they did it and announce that it doesn't work.
Which pretty much translates to, "The prayer challenge will work if you start believing prior to praying."
GreenLight311 wrote:The same way that many people can read the Bible but not so many can obviously understand it. And what's the point of reading if not to understand? Similarly, what's the point in praying when you don't mean it?
Again, the act of praying involves an a priori belief in the usefulness of prayer. In short, it's not a "challenge" at all. The results are inconclusive and biased by belief.
GreenLight311 wrote:God knows when you're serious. I should hope that you know when you're serious.
Then God should also know that I have tried --quite honestly and sincerely-- to know of his existence. God should also be well aware of the fact of my skepticism and impatience and the effect of his null response.
GreenLight311 wrote:Second, I wasn't talking about Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle.
Then what were you talking about?
GreenLight311 wrote:I am pretty certain of my statement. I'm going to ask a physicist to get more answers and I will get back you all of you on the subject.
Since you're familiar with CARM, I urge you to post the question in the GEN (General sciences) section of their discussion forum. I know for a fact that an array of physicists participate there, including Hans (HRG), Physicist, limana, and if I recall correctly, inertia. There are probably a few more than those, though I'd regard HRG as the most credible source there; his PhD is in either mathematical or theoretical physics (he's also got his Juris doctorate).
GreenLight311 wrote: I've read too many physics books to recall which one of them that information came from, including A Brief History of Time and a number of assorted books by R. P. Feynman.
Isn't Feynman terrific?! I've read quite a few Feynman books myself. :D If you've not read Alan Lightman's Great Ideas in Physics, I highly recommend it. John Gribbin's In Search of Schrödinger's Cat is also a pretty good read, in my opinion.

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mrmufin

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Post #36

Post by mrmufin »

GreenLight311 wrote:Second, I wasn't talking about Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle. I am pretty certain of my statement. I'm going to ask a physicist to get more answers and I will get back you all of you on the subject.
I've already taken my afforementioned advice and asked the question in another forum:

Macroscopic uncertainty?

If you're skeptical of the credentials or qualifications of the participants therein who claim to have degrees in physics, or are unsatisfied with my phrasing of the question, feel free to raise your objections either here or there. Perhaps the question could be directed in the "Ask a physicist" section of the Fermi National Accelerator Labratory website?

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mrmufin

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Post #37

Post by chrispalasz »

Well, I just didn't want to bother with it there. I don't really want to jump around to other website discussions. I've already taken steps to ask a Physicist.

FERMI is good, but Argonne is better for asking questions. They have an entire website for it. Thanks for helping. Hopefully there will be an answer soon.
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"Beware the sound of one hand clapping"

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Post #38

Post by mrmufin »

GreenLight311 wrote:Well, I just didn't want to bother with it there. I don't really want to jump around to other website discussions. I've already taken steps to ask a Physicist.

FERMI is good, but Argonne is better for asking questions. They have an entire website for it. Thanks for helping. Hopefully there will be an answer soon.
Cool! I've not been to the Argonne site; I'll have to check it out. I cheerfully admit my lack of certainty on this one, though I'd hedge my bets on the side of macroscopic certainty, with all other things being equal. I pondered this question quite a bit yesterday at work and, like you, I'm hoping for a reliable answer sometime soon.

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Post #39

Post by Vera »

Our prayers are not answered when they are not righteous or when God knows that what we request isn't what is best.
Would any Christian argue that guiding someone to God is not what is best? In what situation would allowing someone to not believe be better? Then why do so many prayers for a sign go unanswered? Why would God allow someone who is teetering on the edge of belief or disbelief to topple in the "wrong" direction?

I have taken your challenge. And nothing ever came of it. I was left to solve my problems on my own, and have done a fair job of it. How many times must we take the challenge before we see some result?

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Post #40

Post by mrmufin »

Vera wrote:How many times must we take the challenge before we see some result?
Oh, that's an easy one! Until the desired outcome is achieved and the person who prayed makes a correlation between outcome and prayer. After all, the gods are pretty busy with the Universal Expansion Project and this may distract from their responsibilities at the Prayer Hotlines. Sadly, the gods were designed prior to symmetrical multiprocessing architectures and their time-slicing algorithms are incapable processing such an enormous amount of simultaneous data input. Expect glitches.

Once enough mumbo-jumbo about sincerity, righteousness, and divine will is stacked on top of the prayer challenge, it's no longer a challenge. Because null and/or conflicting results are consistently and conveniently regarded as operator error, absolutely nothing can be affirmed. A similarly provocative question might be, "Does prayer ever result in a false positive?" :P

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mrmufin

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