Treasure Hunting

[chrispalasz]

Now, let me first explore how this started. It spawned from the Prayer Challenge thread from a post by mrmuffin:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 3582#13582

I wrote:
God knows when you're serious. I should hope that you know when you're serious.

response was: Then God should also know that I have tried --quite honestly and sincerely-- to know of his existence. God should also be well aware of the fact of my skepticism and impatience and the effect of his null response.

Some people are listed as an Agnostic and an Atheist. Some are listed as Agnostic but lean toward Atheism. I interpret this to mean (correct me if I'm wrong. I don't wish to do anyone injustice here) that the former admits to truly not knowing if God exists, but he tends to feel that there is no God and he would argue for that side in a debate.

Here's the scenario; here's the question: If you were told that there is a large chest of gold buried somewhere that is worth tens of billions of dollars, would you search for it if you didn't think it existed? You don't know if it exists. It could very well exist... but maybe it doesn't. If it did exist, it would be worth your time to look for it... if it didn't exist, it might just be a waste of your time. Again, you don't know.

Can a person say that they have really looked for the treasure and still say that they don't believe it exists? Don't you first have to bring yourself to some understanding that the treasure exists before you start your search? Otherwise, what's the point in looking for it?

On another note, would you ever say that you looked for the treasure and didn't find it so that means it doesn't exist? Would you ever look for the treasure in order to try and disprove its existance? The main question is in blue, but you can approach this one with however you want, I suppose.

*ADDITION*
Here's some more criteria for you, so I can better clarify the direction of this post. Feel free to take these 3 things into consideration as well:

1) Nobody has found this treasure or claims to know exactly where it is.
2) Of course there are other ways of making money. You don't know if this treasure exists... but the concept of it is appealing to you. If it DID exist, you would definately want it.
3) You are a middle class American. Aquiring this treasure would significantly increase your wealth.

[Nyril]

Would I? I'm not sure if I would. People still search for Atlantis; and Atlantis actually meets many of the criteria you have listed above. Actually, there was recently a big thing on the news where they said they truly think they've found Atlantis... somewhere under the ocean near Turkey. It was a couple months ago... maybe in November.

On that note, people also search for UFO's. What's your point? We can get people to look for anything we want them to, so long as we stick a big enough lure out there for them.

[mrmufin]

mrmufin: Thanks for your response. I hope you don't mind that I used your statement as the example.

I assure you, GreenLight311, if you cross any boundaries, I'll be the first to inform you...

To avoid the areas where this analogy fails... I would like to recommend that you try answering the question as though there were no metaphor at all.

Actually, I thought I did that, moreso than other responders. For example, an all-powerful god would have the capacity to reveal itself to me in convincing, unambiguous terms. The fact that none of the gods have done that thus far is curious, to say the least. An all-knowing god should be well aware of my skeptical nature. I will further submit that an all-powerful god would be responsible for my skeptical nature and should be able to change that nature accordingly. I don't get to choose my beliefs or suspend my disbelief without additional and compelling data. An all-knowing god would be well aware of these facts, as well as the fact that the claims of its field representatives ring unconvincing on my ears.

1) Nobody has found this treasure or claims to know exactly where it is.

This makes it sound even more like a suburban legend. This also causes your analogy to break down in a big, fat hurry for the simple reason that a great many individuals claim to have a relationship with one or more of the gods.

2) Of course there are other ways of making money. You don't know if this treasure exists... but the concept of it is appealing to you. If it DID exist, you would definately want it.

Whether or not I would want to pursue the treasure will be based on how successful I think my search might be. I'll determine that, at least in part, by the success rate of others. Perhaps I could have been an enormously wealthy rock'n'roll star; at some point, I accepted that the sweetness of success in that field had a whole bunch of illusion attached to it, so I cut my hair and got a real job. To drop the analogy completely, the concept of the Christian god (well, at least some versions) is (at least somewhat) appealing. So is the concept of superliminous travel, and in more practical terms, a Ferrari 360 Spyder parked in front of the mufin's stately Scottish castle. The appeal, however, is kept in check by the plausability of attainment.

3) You are a middle class American. Aquiring this treasure would significantly increase your wealth.

So long as I'm getting by, I'm going to need to assess the risks vs. reward using a cost benefit analysis algorithm. So long as I have my health, the very lovely msmufin, and the willingness to exchange an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, the lure of the treasure is kept in check. To drop the analogy completely, what is it the the gods offer that I can't achieve by alternative means?

If those 3 additions help you, feel free to answer again at your discretion.

I'm not sure how they were supposed to help me, but I had fun responding.

Regards,
mrmufin

[vanillamoon]

I'm not so sure what you mean by "Does gambling count?"

You asked in this thread;

If you were told that there is a large chest of gold buried somewhere that is worth tens of billions of dollars, would you search for it if you didn't think it existed? You don't know if it exists. It could very well exist... but maybe it doesn't. If it did exist, it would be worth your time to look for it... if it didn't exist, it might just be a waste of your time. Again, you don't know.

This is like gambling. For example the lottery. If you win, you get a large sum of money like the large chest of gold somewhere you mentioned. But you might not think it is very likely that you will get it. You may even think the whole deal would be a waste of time since it s so unlikely to win the amount.

Although gambling would differ from the addition you made where;

1) Nobody has found this treasure or claims to know exactly where it is.

Because it seems other people have won the lottery. Although no-one knows exactly what numbers gets you the big win. But still the chance of winning seems too unlikely to bother with the gambling. I rarely do gamble unless there might be something else other than the prize involved, eg. The game is for charity, at a social event, etc.

Not only that, but gambling is all about taking risks, and even treasure hunting would involve some sort of investment (you have to organize treasure hunting, eg. travel costs, time, equiptment, effort) that may or may not end up being wasted.

[chrispalasz]

vanillamoon: Well, withe the way you say it, it sounds like it could be similar to gambling.

I don't see it as the same thing though. Something about the paying to gamble part seems different to me; although I suppose you could argue that investing in the search would be like paying...