Happy Anniversary?

[myth-one.com]

Today, June 20th 2009, is the eighth anniversary of the sacrifice Andrea Yates made for her children. Had she not murdered them, Noah would be 15 years old, John would be 13, Paul 11, Luke 10, and Mary would be 8. Instead, they were murdered by their mother so they would go immediately to live with God eternally in the paradise of heaven, thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in hellfire.

Is this a victory for Christianity?

[1213]

Is this "Christian" theology wrong?

It is wrong, because murder is against God’s Law.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

It's true that MOST believers do not reach the extreme conclusions that Andrea Yates reached.

And that is the point. I have yet to see any documentation that the belief is actualy a causative factor ("but a source of insanity") in the kind of psychosis that seems evident in people like her. If you have evidence to support this claim feel free to post or link to it. If not you have nothing but unreasonable conjuncture and unsupported hypberbole.

As for your comments about what "I have allowed myself to accept" of "what appeals" or is attractive to me, you assume knowledge of my mind and feelings, which you can't possibly have. You couldn't possibly know what I ignore as opposed to interpret differently and unless you are going to suggest you know "the truth" about what is the only possible bible interpretation (which I do believe violates guidelines in this sub-forum) the most you can reasonably say is you disagree with what you know about Jehovah's Witness interpretation of scripture. To which I would reply, fine, not a problem for me.



JW

And that is the point. I have yet to see any documentation that the belief is actualy a causative factor ("but a source of insanity") in the kind of psychosis that seems evident in people like her. If you have evidence to support this claim feel free to post or link to it. If not you have nothing but unreasonable conjuncture and unsupported hypberbole.

How about a mass example?

Wikipedia
Witch trials in the early modern period
The period of witch trials in Early Modern Europe[1] were a widespread moral panic suggesting that malevolent Satanic witches were operating as an organized threat to Christendom during the 15th to 18th centuries.[2] Those accused of witchcraft were portrayed as being worshippers of the Devil, who engaged in such acts as malevolent sorcery at meetings known as Witches' Sabbaths. Many people were subsequently accused of being witches, and were put on trial for the crime, with varying punishments being applicable in different regions and at different times.

While early trials fall still within the Late Medieval period, the peak of the witch hunt was during the period of the European wars of religion, peaking between about 1580 and 1630. The witch hunts declined in the early 18th century. In Great Britain, their end is marked by the Witchcraft Act of 1735. But sporadic witch-trials continued to be held during the second half of the 18th century, the last known dating to 1782,[3] though a prosecution was commenced in Tennessee as recently as 1833.

Over the entire duration of the phenomenon of some three centuries, an estimated total of between 40,000 and 60,000 people were executed. Among the best known of these trials were the Scottish North Berwick witch trials, Swedish Torsåker witch trials and the American Salem witch trials. Among the largest and most notable were the Trier witch trials (1581–1593), the Fulda witch trials (1603–1606), the Würzburg witch trial (1626–1631) and the Bamberg witch trials (1626–1631).

The sociological causes of the witch-hunts have long been debated in scholarship. Mainstream historiography sees the reason for the witch craze in a complex interplay of various factors that mark the early modern period, including the religious sectarianism in the wake of the Reformation, besides other religious, societal, economic and climatic factors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_tri ... ern_period

Thousands of women and young girls, daughters and wives, were brutally murdered to satisfy religious mass psychosis. This is the inevitable result of taking deeply held religious beliefs to their ultimate conclusion. Which, in her own mind at least, was exactly what Andrea Yates was doing. She was freeing her children from evil influences. Andrea Yates was guilty by reason of buying into a lifetime of religious indoctrination and religious insanity.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Is this "Christian" theology wrong?

It is wrong, because murder is against God’s Law.

Unless of course God personally orders it. Then it is required.

[JoeyKnothead]

It isn't a victory for anything, but rather a sad reminder of a woman who had some major psychiatric problems and who struggled with postpartum depression. Religion wasn't the cause, faulty thinking was.

Now that has us to ponder the relationship between faulty thinking and religious belief.

How can we tell one ain't involved with the other'n?

[myth-one.com]

So what exactly are you arguing?

That a distressed woman can use "Christian" theology to justify the murder of her innocent children.

That theology is:

a -- Humans are born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in Heaven or hell.

b -- Children and others who do not know right from wrong get the free pass to Heaven. Thus being saved from eternal torture.

I have yet to see documented evidence to support that this is the case for even a fraction of the 1 billion professed Christians and in my experience have never come across any that hold this belief.

100% of the Christians I asked following the murders, say the murdered children's souls are in Heaven eternally with God. That is, they believe the above theology.

Reason would dictate that murdering children would be a syptomatic of some kind of extreme psychosis rather than a belief in the afterlife; but as I said, I'm open to reading evidence to the contrary

Murdering children is typically symptomatic of extreme psychosis.

Doing so to save them from eternal hellfire was learned in church.

If she was psychotic, why did she feel a need to justify her acts?

I got no poney in this race.

All Christians have a pony in this race.

But the typical Christian response is deny ... deny, . . . deny.

[JoeyKnothead]

Is this "Christian" theology wrong?

It is wrong, because murder is against God’s Law.

I sure wish you'd tell him that. From what I hear, he's wanted for flooding, bear sickin on folks and all kinda fuss.

[myth-one.com]

Is this "Christian" theology wrong?

It is wrong, because murder is against God’s Law.

The theology being questioned is not murder!

That theology being questioned is:

a -- Humans are born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in Heaven or hell.

b -- Children and others who do not know right from wrong get the free pass to Heaven. Thus being saved from eternal torture.

Is this what the vast number of Christians believe?

[JehovahsWitness]

So what exactly are you arguing?

That a distressed woman can use "Christian" theology to justify the murder of her innocent children.

That theology is:

a -- Humans are born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in Heaven or hell.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe this.

b -- Children and others who do not know right from wrong get the free pass to Heaven. Thus being saved from eternal torture.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe this.

100% of the Christians I asked following the murders, say the murdered children's souls are in Heaven eternally with God. That is, they believe the above theology.

Then you probably never asked one of JEHOVAHS WITNESSES because I doubt if you will ever find one that believe that any of those children are in heaven with God.

Doing so to save them from eternal hellfire was learned in church.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in eternal hellfire.

That theology being questioned is:

a -- Humans are born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in Heaven or hell.

b -- Children and others who do not know right from wrong get the free pass to Heaven. Thus being saved from eternal torture.

If the above is the theology in question it demonstratively does not concern Jehovah's Witnesses.

Any questions?*




JW


*(Please say yes because I LOVE talking about the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, can do it all day and all night. I have links at the ready)

[myth-one.com]

a -- Humans are born with an immortal soul which will live eternally in Heaven or hell.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe this.

b -- Children and others who do not know right from wrong get the free pass to Heaven. Thus being saved from eternal torture.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe this.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in eternal hellfire.

If the above is the theology in question it demonstratively does not concern Jehovah's Witnesses.

Any questions?*

Good post!

I disagree somewhat that it does not concern Jehovah's Witnesses. I would say that Jehovah's Witnesses are not part of the problem -- based on your statements above.

And I congratulate you and yours on your beliefs.

Take a bow!

I will bite on your footnote and attempt to make one last point.

Any time some innocent child is murdered, it affects all mankind.

As poet John Donne put it:

Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind.

It affects all of us -- even atheists. Paul Yates will never deliver your newspaper, you will not see John Yates in his school play, Luke will not date your daughter, Noah will not become a lawyer, nor will Mary become a famous novelist.

Andrea Yates stole from all of us when she committed this crime. What we can know for certain is that similar murders will occur in the future. At least six more have occurred since the Yates murders, so the problem has not been resolved. In fact, the problem has not even been recognized! The cycle continues!

I think it affects Christians even more so, in that these killings are justified under the guise of "Christianity" -- (except as defined by Jehovahs Witnesses ).

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 49 by myth-one.com]

Thank you. I was not of course implying that Jehovah's Witnesses are unaffected by the tragedy of such events my point was purely theological, I did not want to appear callous or imply that such events don't sadden us.

I still stand by my earlier post that I have yet to see any medical expert point to a causative link between belief in hellfire and baby killers. Just because I don't believe in hellfire I don't feel the need to create hystical claims that it causes diviant behaviour and I have read this thread carefully waiting for credible evidence from mental health experts that claim that is the case.

If extreme ideas and unfounded prejudice contributes to an unhealthy phobia which is a contributory factor in social ills surely unsubstantiated hyperbole demonizing particular groups as essentially psychotic is part of the problem.

Good day to you.

JW