Assuming God exists...

[bigmrpig]

I am not Christian. I do not believe in God. But I do wonder about the Christian God and have this question, which my brother and I were discussing in the car today.

If God exists, and all his exploits in the Bible did happen, then it would seem that God had quite a focus on Earth. Especially if he went to all the trouble of creating all life and creating the conditions required to sustain it seemingly indefinitely.

But we have yet to find a planet similar to Earth, that sustains such life. And the Christian God is shown in Jesus, a human (or a God in human form).

Why so much emphasis on Earth, when God has the entire universe at his fingertips? Humans are not that interesting creatures. The majority of people do not even believe in the Christian God. We haven't developed into a particularly interesting planet. We haven't even gone to Mars, a planet just a stone's throw away in the universal sense. We're not a particularly agreeable people; we have historically solved most of our problems through war, we have loads of crime and murder....

And even if he did focus on Earth, why Humans? Why not make 3 intelligent species? It would be far more interesting to watch 3 sentient species interact with each other.

I don't understand why God would spend so much time on a single species among millions, on a single planet among billions, in a universe incomprehensibly huge, to a point where calling it infinitely big would barely be an exagerration. What about the rest?

If a higher species exists, and visits our planet, that believes in a different God, what does this do to Christianity? It suddenly seems to take all the emphasis on humans from the Bible and moves it somewhere else. And if God did make higher beings elsewhere in the universe, why wouldn't God have told us and it be written in the Bible?

I understand that we are created in God's image, but why would he create a species in his own image that's so hateful and full of disagreement with itself?

Why would God even want an entire species of animal created in his image? If I were a being capable of making life, I would find an intelligent being completely different from myself far more interesting to create and observe. And what purpose do other animals have? Penguins, to use an easy animal, have no effect on humans, but God obviously created this Earth for humans, so why even include them? Why include the bubonic plague?

It just seems like God, an infinitely intelligent being, would not focus himself so thoroughly on one species on one planet, and if he did, then it seems like he did far too much that he could have easily predicted would be extra.

And why does God not recreate what he created and was lost? There are plenty of extinct species that would make the Earth far more interesting if they had not been lost. Why would God make them, only to let them die indefinitely?

Essentially, to sum up this entire series of questions, why did God create what he did?

[harvey1]

Why so much emphasis on Earth, when God has the entire universe at his fingertips? Humans are not that interesting creatures... I don't understand why God would spend so much time on a single species among millions, on a single planet among billions, in a universe incomprehensibly huge, to a point where calling it infinitely big would barely be an exagerration. What about the rest?... if God did make higher beings elsewhere in the universe, why wouldn't God have told us and it be written in the Bible? understand that we are created in God's image, but why would he create a species in his own image that's so hateful and full of disagreement with itself?... It just seems like God, an infinitely intelligent being, would not focus himself so thoroughly on one species on one planet, and if he did, then it seems like he did far too much that he could have easily predicted would be extra. And why does God not recreate what he created and was lost? There are plenty of extinct species that would make the Earth far more interesting if they had not been lost. Why would God make them, only to let them die indefinitely? Essentially, to sum up this entire series of questions, why did God create what he did?

I can only give you my viewpoint coming from a more liberal Christian perspective.

Basically, God is not especially involved in just humans. God is the 'small wind' that met with Elijah on his search for God, and Elijah gave up until he found him in a small, quiet wind. What that story indicates is that God is in every event, big and small. As events happen, they inevitably involve God's presence in the world, and those events are theistically directed on a path that leads to the kingdom of God. It starts off with the smallest seed possible (the big bang) and it becomes a 'tree of life' that encompasses the whole world (universe). The parable of the sower indicates that God seeds all planets in an apparently random manner, and that some planets sprout life, some don't. Some take root and become a great civilization, and some let their own affairs cause their own destruction. Earth is at one of those key moments. We have to decide if we are going to be one of those civilizations that advances into the cosmos and becomes part of the Kingdom of God, or will we destroy ourselves? What God does is throw the 'seed' of opportunity our way. We have to take that seed and grow it and nuture it until it becomes a fruitful plant. Otherwise the plant withers.

As far as extinct species is concerned, this is the results of natural selection mentioned in Matt.13 where the parable of the sower is mentioned. So, there may not be any return of the extinct species.

[hannahjoy]

I don't think I can answer all your questions, but I'll do what I can.

First of all, the ultimate reason for everything God does is for His pleasure, and the ultimate end is to bring glory to Himself. That may seem egotistical, but it is no more than He deserves. Ephesians 1 and 2 go into detail about how God has planned our salvation, and the words "according to the good pleasure of His will" and "to the praise of the glory of His grace" appear repeatedly.

Second, I think it's a mistake to assume that, because we are focused on the human race to the exclusion of others, God is also limited in His focus. He may well be doing countless other acts that we as yet know nothing about, as He is not limited by time or space.

I understand that we are created in God's image, but why would he create a species in his own image that's so hateful and full of disagreement with itself?

He didn't create us the way we are now - that is because of sin. Because sin separates us from God, it necessarily prevents us from knowing anything of God's works apart from what we can see around us.

If a higher species exists, and visits our planet, that believes in a different God, what does this do to Christianity?

Unless this different species was also fallen, they wouldn't believe in a different God, though they might know things about Him that we have no knowledge of.

It suddenly seems to take all the emphasis on humans from the Bible and moves it somewhere else. And if God did make higher beings elsewhere in the universe, why wouldn't God have told us and it be written in the Bible?

The Bible is not a "Handbook on God". Its purpose is to reveal God's working with us specifically, in order to offer us a way of salvation. It was for that purpose that He came to Earth in human form. We can't see the "bigger picture" until the blindness caused by sin is cured.

We are told something of angels. Since they don't reproduce as humans and animals do, they must be individual and unique creations of God, and, judging from the descriptions, "interesting" and awe-inspiring beyond our imagination.

So, to answer your final question, I don't know why God created what He did except that it was the best way to bring glory to Himself. And I see no reason to assume that there is nothing more to God and His works than our limited vision can see. As you pointed out, we haven't even made it to Mars yet.

Hannah Joy

[Amadeus]

I can think of a few reasons for the "why Earth?" question:

God created the Heavens and Earth because He wanted people to love Him. He gave us free will so we could really love Him, and not be forced to. That is why He spends His attention on us...because He loves us and takes care of us.

God did not make us disagreealble. we did that to ourselves

I don't know why God would allow some species to become extinct. I like to think that He made them to give us something interesting to find later . I think animals will be in Heaven with us, so we will see them alive later, anyway! Those fossils show the glory of God. Kind of a "look what I can do" kind of thing.

Though I am open to the fact that there are extraterrestrials, if there are not it is just another one of those "magnificence of God" things. When I look at the night sky and try to envision how miniscule we are in all those galaxies, I think, "WOW, God is awesome!"
The only "higher beings" spoken of in the Bible are angels. It was important for us to know about them because we may encounter them (I have!), the good and the bad ones. If we don't know anything about spiritual warfare, we are more subject to an attack.

[Arch]

Along the same lienes as the first question

Since the universe is unlimited in space as far as we know it there has to be a uncountable number of planets and systems in it. Thus one would believe that there are probably other beings populating other planets other than just this populated planet .

My question is did Jesus go and die on all of those planets for the sins of all the people on those planets as well?

How many times did the poor man have to die and since I am sure more planets are producing life after ours has and evovling how many times will he have to die for the sins of people who will populated planets to come?

Or is god through with his creative juices and is not creating anymore beings on anymore planets?

[harvey1]

My question is did Jesus go and die on all of those planets for the sins of all the people on those planets as well? How many times did the poor man have to die and since I am sure more planets are producing life after ours has and evovling how many times will he have to die for the sins of people who will populated planets to come? Or is god through with his creative juices and is not creating anymore beings on anymore planets?

Jesus is the Savior for humanity. If there are humans on other planets, then assuredly Jesus is their savior. Does that answer your question?

[Arch]

My question is did Jesus go and die on all of those planets for the sins of all the people on those planets as well? How many times did the poor man have to die and since I am sure more planets are producing life after ours has and evovling how many times will he have to die for the sins of people who will populated planets to come? Or is god through with his creative juices and is not creating anymore beings on anymore planets?

Jesus is the Savior for humanity. If there are humans on other planets, then assuredly Jesus is their savior. Does that answer your question?

No it didn't because I never said anything about them being Human and even if they were how would they know about Jesus unless he went to each individual planet and re-inacted the death ressurection thing over and over again.

Anyway how real is the death ressurection thing if it is being re-inacted in over and over again on several planets. Also what if te population of two planets meet and discuss said Jesuses... Wouldn't they each describe him differently?

[harvey1]

My question is did Jesus go and die on all of those planets for the sins of all the people on those planets as well? How many times did the poor man have to die and since I am sure more planets are producing life after ours has and evovling how many times will he have to die for the sins of people who will populated planets to come? Or is god through with his creative juices and is not creating anymore beings on anymore planets?

Jesus is the Savior for humanity. If there are humans on other planets, then assuredly Jesus is their savior. Does that answer your question?

No it didn't because I never said anything about them being Human and even if they were how would they know about Jesus unless he went to each individual planet and re-inacted the death ressurection thing over and over again.
Anyway how real is the death ressurection thing if it is being re-inacted in over and over again on several planets. Also what if te population of two planets meet and discuss said Jesuses... Wouldn't they each describe him differently?

It's hard to talk in terms of hypotheticals since we have no idea how alien life would present itself to us. However, my understanding of the biblical interpretation in the NT is that Jesus is the human manifestation of the Logos (2nd identity in the Trinity), and therefore that manifestation is unique to being human.

Let me give you an example. Let's suppose that instead of mammals evolving high intelligence, let's say it was crows who evolved extreme intelligence. Their vocal chords would make communication so much limited, so they might use non-verbal communication and they might have had to work in larger groups to do the job that one human could do. Such a network might have favored a groupism mentality (just speculating), in which case the manifestation of the Logos might come as a group of 50 crows. Perhaps a crow world would think it odd that we have one individual as a Savior. They might ask where are the others with him (perhaps confusing the apostles for part of the group)...

Of course, that is just pure fantasy at this point. The important point is that I do not think humans have to evangelize other alien worlds since the scriptures do not say that. My conception is that the 'return of Christ' is very much interrelated to First Contact, and that this might be the mechanism by which God uses to satisfy the natural fear that might come from being contacted. But, that's pure, pure, pure speculation.

[bigmrpig]

Thank you for your responses

I apologize to anyone who may have thought I was trying to debunk Christianity, it's just hard to answer these questions myself (not believing in Christianity), and it was bugging me. I really just wanted to hear some Christian opinions on it. Thanks

[harvey1]

Thank you for your responses

I apologize to anyone who may have thought I was trying to debunk Christianity, it's just hard to answer these questions myself (not believing in Christianity), and it was bugging me. I really just wanted to hear some Christian opinions on it. Thanks

No bother whatsoever. I think ET holds a great number of surprises for the human race, so it should at least be entertained. The problem, though, is that since we have no idea if ET is out there, and if so, we have no idea on their religion, etc, we cannot come to any conclusions. As I mentioned to spetey in our debate on the <A HREF="http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 12259">The Argument of Diversity</A>, religious differences can be settled later as humanity evolves. We have no idea what surprises await in the future of evolution, so it is pointless to speculate. However, Christians can and must continue to evangelize our beliefs since we have good reason to believe what we do. Only God can decide how everything will play out in the distant future. So, I don't lose much sleep over it.