Science and religion...

[Zarathustra]

Christianity and Science have been rivals for quite some time. But why? Science is exploring the fabric of our reality: the reality that was created by God. Whether the astronomers that are exploring space and the wonders of the Heavens (God probably didn't just put them because he had created humans and just wanted to pass the time) or Mathematicians/Biologists/General Scientists that are exploring the beautiful patterns that make our reality tick.

Sure, science isn't necessarily doing things in the name of God; however, Religion has been antagonizing Science for quite some time. God took a lot of time (6 days, which is a lot of time for a being that exists beyond time ) to prepare this Universe for us. The religious are saying "I'm sorry that you took so much time to make this for me, I'm obviously not worthy to be part of it". But, if God thought enough of us to put us in this beautiful universe, should we not enjoy it while we can?

Wouldn't it please God to see his subjects exploring the environment that had been prepared for them, and appreciating the intricacy of reality, as opposed to asking for forgiveness for simply being created by Him?

[Zarathustra]

I'm not sure about the proto-facist part, but I can see where you'd get that idea. But he was kind of anti-semitic, but not all that much: he did give the Jews the credit of having a better God than Christians . And, yes, I did rather enjoy his timeline and psycho-analysis of Christianity.

[hannahjoy]

Isn't that the idea of Original Sin? We are born with it, and must overcome it by seeking forgiveness.

We aren't created with Original Sin, we inherit it.

the scientists think they know more than their Creator.

Here's the first part I disagree with you on. Scientists tend to stay away from the word "Creator" "God" or anything else with religious implications. I suppose that this tends to annoy the religious community who believe all glory should go to God. The amoral make the discoveries that the religious can give their own moral connotations if they wish.

I realize scientists don't say that in so many words, but when they claim they weren't created, or that the world is different from what God says it is, they are in essence claiming to know more than God - their Creator.

Looks like I'm not the only fan of Nietzsche here after all, eh?

While I would not be a fan of his in any case, I might at least have a little more respect for him if he had dispensed with about 99% of his italics, exclamation marks, and adjectives .

Hannah Joy

[Zarathustra]

We aren't created with Original Sin, we inherit it.

I see the distinction that you make, but why spend all this time apologizing for something we are not responsible for? Is God even still holding this grudge? We haven't heard from Him in a while, perhaps he thought it better to "forgive and forget"?

I realize scientists don't say that in so many words, but when they claim they weren't created, or that the world is different from what God says it is, they are in essence claiming to know more than God - their Creator.

I just want to get this clear: are you saying that science would be OK with Christians if they would claim that God is still the best? Or that science will never be OK because it proves the Christians wrong? Besides, who really knows what the Word of God is, except for God: was it not given to earthly messengers? Messengers with Original Sin?

[BeHereNow]

they are in essence claiming to know more than God - their Creator.

It appears you are claiming to know as much as God.
There are belief systems which allow for a creator, but do not require the Creation story.
For 2000 years the church has gotten it wrong whereas science has gotten it right. Why is it that creation is the exception?
If the Bible is a spiritual book and not a book of science, how can it dictate science?

[bdbthinker]

If the Bible is a spiritual book and not a book of science, how can it dictate science?

Exactly! It makes about as much sense as The Complete Works of Shakespeare dictating Calculus

[hannahjoy]

I see the distinction that you make, but why spend all this time apologizing for something we are not responsible for? Is God even still holding this grudge? We haven't heard from Him in a while, perhaps he thought it better to "forgive and forget"?

Forget Original Sin, we all sin every day. Those sins must be repented of and covered by the blood of Christ if we are to be righteous in the sight of God. I don't spend too much time "apologizing" for the sin I inherited - I have so many other sins.

It appears you are claiming to know as much as God.

I don't know how you got that impression - I've admitted before how much I don't know. I do know what God has revealed.

If the Bible is a spiritual book and not a book of science, how can it dictate science?

The Bible claimed to be inspired - breathed out - by God. If that is true, God should know what He did and how His creation works. The primary purpose is spiritual, but if God includes other information, it is true.

I'll try an analogy.
I might write a long explanation of how my cat responds to music, and mention a specific piece I was listening to. My point would not be to tell my listening habits, but when I mention them, what I say is correct - I should know. You wouldn't come along and say, "She doesn't really listen to that music, even though she says so. That point of that essay was her cat, so it can't have anything to say about what she actually listens to."

It makes about as much sense as The Complete Works of Shakespeare dictating Calculus

It makes about as much sense as The Complete Works of Shakespeare dictating what city Hermia and Lysander were from.

Hannah Joy

[Zarathustra]

Have you tried just not sinning? If you are going to say that it is impossible not to sin: why apologize for the inevitable? And why would God create life in such a way that it was impossible to live without sin?

[bdbthinker]

It is impossible NOT to sin. The rules are setup so you are going to fail.
Guilty people, who are usually good people, feel bad about their "sins" and are less likely to give those in power grief.
The more I think about it, the more I realize this stuff is seriously sick.

[hannahjoy]

It may be accurate to say it's impossible not to get through the day without sin, but it's never impossible not to commit a specific sin at a specific time. Or, to get rid of the double negative, it's always possible, at the specific time of temptation, not to sin. God did not "create life in such a way that it was impossible to live without sin."

I can always choose not to respond in a wrong way at this specific time, or do this specific thing I shouldn't do, or put off doing this specific thing I should do.

I Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

When we don't take that way of escape, we are responsible for our sin, and must repent.

Hannah Joy

[bdbthinker]

It may be accurate to say it's impossible not to get through the day without sin, but it's never impossible not to commit a specific sin at a specific time. Or, to get rid of the double negative, it's always possible, at the specific time of temptation, not to sin. God did not "create life in such a way that it was impossible to live without sin."

I can always choose not to respond in a wrong way at this specific time, or do this specific thing I shouldn't do, or put off doing this specific thing I should do.

I Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

When we don't take that way of escape, we are responsible for our sin, and must repent.

Hannah Joy

Is having a lustful thought a sin?

The bible says it is:

" But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. " - Mt. 5:28

I don't know about how a woman's mind works (this is a true mystery to me ) But I know how guys think...this is impossible. There's no way to win this one because of the primal way our brains function. This is one of the reason why I make the claim that the system is setup for you to sin.