Okay, I guess this little experiment can be used by both groups. What if what path you are following turns out to be the wrong one? This argument has been done again and again many times. The best example would be Pascal's wager; "If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing -- but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist."
I have my own qualms about such a statment, for example not deciding to follow this or that purely to save your own soul. But right now this is not what I wish to debate. Nor am I asking what a person would do when confronted with the truth. No, in this experiment I want to ask;
If you were an atheist but in truth there was a God and you were following the wrong path,
OR
If you were a Christian, or even a deist, and it turns out there is no God
What would the moral consequences be for each case when one turns out to be wrong.
For example there is a God; atheists may risk their own soul... Perhaps, but considering other moral consequences; you may have also dragged other people down the wrong path with you and would be responsible for their eternal suffering or something similar. You may even end up being on the wrong side. Or (to be fair) if there is no God all the investment or money in this lifetime may actually go to waste.
In any case, either side may have it's moral disadvantages, which may or may not depend on them being wrong. Of course, if they aren't wrong, perhaps such moral disadvantages would be a compromise for the greater good. But if they are wrong, which would be more right or wrong? How would they weigh up?
Weighing the risks
Moderator: Moderators
Weighing the risks
Post #1'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Post #2
You happen to make the same mistake Pascal made.
It is quite possible for both sides to be wrong.
What if the real god has been cursed with having to hear each and every single annoying and irritating prayer that every little insignificant human has to offer, for eternity?
He'd probably be glad to see the spread of atheism, dont you think?
What if the devil wrote the Bible and God reserves hell for those who follow the book?
Now, if that's the case, then I daresay that a moral obligation to demonstrate the falsehood of your beliefs is in order.
It is quite possible for both sides to be wrong.
What if the real god has been cursed with having to hear each and every single annoying and irritating prayer that every little insignificant human has to offer, for eternity?
He'd probably be glad to see the spread of atheism, dont you think?
What if the devil wrote the Bible and God reserves hell for those who follow the book?
Now, if that's the case, then I daresay that a moral obligation to demonstrate the falsehood of your beliefs is in order.
Gilt and Vetinari shared a look. It said: While I loathe you and all of your personal philosophy to a depth unplummable by any line, I will credit you at least with not being Crispin Horsefry [The big loud idiot in the room].
-Going Postal, Discworld
-Going Postal, Discworld
Post #3
I'm obviously aware of that 8) Which is why the question is aimed at both sides. And if they are both wrong, how do they weigh up against each other. Other deists included, which would what the above appears to beYou happen to make the same mistake Pascal made.
It is quite possible for both sides to be wrong.
'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Re: Weighing the risks
Post #4By 'wrong path' am I correct in assuming you mean not following 'christianity' however god has decided that is to be i.e. which of the many interpretations of said religion is 'right'?scorpia wrote:
If you were an atheist but in truth there was a God and you were following the wrong path,
If (and I find it vey hard to even allow an 'if'), the JCI god was the one and only deity....
In the first instance I would quote Bertrand Russell and ask why he failed to make his prescence better known. Then I would have to rely on the alledged benvolence of the alledged deity and, as he would atready no doubt be aware, aprize him opf the fact that even though I did not follow the prescriptive path (the so many versions were all so confusing) I opted to hold out on a decision yet live my life as best i could by basic moral principles.
If that is not good enough for him well I could do without his company.
No - I believe people are responsible for their owm beliefs...I cna give my opinion - that is all. It is up to each individual to decide for themselves.scorpia wrote: you may have also dragged other people down the wrong path with you and would be responsible for their eternal suffering or something similar.
Very good point...what if all that time and money had gone into improving the lot of others...doing community work or some such thing. What a wasted opportunity to do REAL good.scorpia wrote: Or (to be fair) if there is no God all the investment or money in this lifetime may actually go to waste.
I
Post #5
Well I wasn't really asking what you'd do if God turns out to be real. But if you want to debate this;In the first instance I would quote Bertrand Russell and ask why he failed to make his prescence better known. Then I would have to rely on the alledged benvolence of the alledged deity and, as he would atready no doubt be aware, aprize him opf the fact that even though I did not follow the prescriptive path (the so many versions were all so confusing) I opted to hold out on a decision yet live my life as best i could by basic moral principles.
Why doesn't he make himself better known? Could be several reasons.
a. This life is still a test of faith. His apparent lack of presence may be a test of it.
b. Jesus in his first life could have done a whole heap of signs to prove that he was the Messiah, perhaps even to prove his existance o following generations. But when asked to do so, it seems he didn't want to, since no amount of proof would convince those who demanded it of them. Eg Luke 11: 29-30.
But then there's the point of doubting Thomas whom Jesus appeared to. For some I guess he does make himself better known. Some may claim to have seen him, in some way or another, but this tends to be the random stuff other people wont believe.
etc...
That's actually a good point there. Trouble is, although you are one that relises this, you are one of a kind. Eg. Apparently 'It is not the Believers fault that they believe the things they do'No - I believe people are responsible for their owm beliefs...I cna give my opinion - that is all. It is up to each individual to decide for themselves.
Christians DO good anywaywhat if all that time and money had gone into improving the lot of others...doing community work or some such thing. What a wasted opportunity to do REAL good.
They're encouraged to do that.'Belief is never giving up.'- Random footy adverisement.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
Sometimes even a wise man is wrong. Sometimes even a fool is right.
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juliod
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Post #6
But do they do more good than bad, on average?Christians DO good anyway They're encouraged to do that.
One consequence of believing in a fake god is that you may do evil while thinking you are doing good.
Crusades, Inquisition, witch burnings, pogroms, xenophobia, racism, slavery, homophobia, sexism, terrorism, war...
DanZ
Post #7
Sorry...I though that was what you meant byscorpia wrote: Well I wasn't really asking what you'd do if God turns out to be real. But if you want to debate this;
Scorpia
If you were an atheist but in truth there was a God and you were following the wrong path,
But the bible is full of all sorts of admonitions thet god wants us to believe...one would think that if that is what god wants he would facilitate it rahter than test his creations.scorpia wrote: Why doesn't he make himself better known? Could be several reasons.
a. This life is still a test of faith. His apparent lack of presence may be a test of it.
Some christians do - many don't. Same for just about anybody I guess.scorpia wrote:Christians DO good anywaywhat if all that time and money had gone into improving the lot of others...doing community work or some such thing. What a wasted opportunity to do REAL good.
