Fire Insurance

[Misty]

I wonder if some Christians, especially those of the more fundamentalist persuasion, see their faith as fire insurance? It seems to do little else for them that is for sure. What is the point in having a faith if it doesn't make you a person others relate to, and want to know, rather than making them run a mile?

[WinePusher]

I wonder if some Christians, especially those of the more fundamentalist persuasion, see their faith as fire insurance?

And you use the word "fire" as a metaphor to allude to what.

It seems to do little else for them that is for sure.

How do you know this. How do you know what my faith, or the faith of another christian, does for them.

What is the point in having a faith if it doesn't make you a person others relate to, and want to know, rather than making them run a mile?

This makes no sense, there is a fragment error.

But to answer your point, faith is somewhat like fire insurance.

The point of my faith, and probably that faiths of other theists, is that it gives our lives meaning and hope.

[Benoni]

We should never view suffering in a negative way. We should always see it as a totally positive handiwork of God that will always have excellent results, without any defeat whatsoever. In all Job's suffering He did not attribute folly to God. Job 1:22. God Himself is fully responsible for all of our negative situations. The statement is true that was made by a man of God back in the eighteen hundreds: "

Once. Just once I would like to see a Christian use Job in a proper context. Yes, you're correct that Job never attributed folly to God. However, he also never saw it as positive and never expected the reward God ultimately gave to him. So though I personally agree that God is fully responsible for all of our negative situations, and also agree that it would be better to look towards the positive during times of suffering, Job is not a good book to reference to make this point. Varying passages by Paul would make this case much more strongly. Job, not so much.

Job 32:9 & 13 says, "Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged always understand judgment. Lest ye should say: we have found out wisdom - God thrusteth him down, not man." Job's three friends mistakenly thought that the sole purpose of God's judgement is punitive. They could not comprehend that the purpose of judgement is always to bring about a restoration or an advancement into the ways of the Lord.

God was already pleased with Job, but he had a plan that would make Job even better. Job was a perfect man, but his perfection needed to be tested. Job said, "God knoweth the way that I take, and when He hath tried me I shall come forth as gold. For HE performeth the thing that is appointed for me, and many such things are with Him." Job 23:10 & 14. God has prepared a special kind of testing for each individual. In Job 32.13, Elihu said, "God thrusteth Job down, and not man." We can well add, "And not Satan, either!" God takes the full responsibility for every person's fall. These are parts of His ways. All negative forces are as a dog on a leash. They can only do what they are allowed to do by the Hand that holds the leash. The perplexities, the trials, the testings, the pressures and the failures are all God's responsibility and it will all be worked into our good.

It has been well said that "four walls do not a prison make," When we submit to the God of the circumstance instead of to the circumstance itself, then we can know the meaning of genuine freedom and peace. Are the silences of God comfortable to you, or are they frustrating? if you feel secure in the knowledge of what God is really like, then you will be able to accept God's apparent disinterest as part of His ways. Zephaniah 3:17 says, "The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty, He will save, He will rejoice over thee with joy; He will (literally) be silent in His love."

[Benoni]

Winepusher,
And you use the word "fire" as a metaphor to allude to what.



Please explain to me the difference between the cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost had fully come and the fire in the lake of fire in The Book of Revelation?

[WinePusher]

Winepusher,
And you use the word "fire" as a metaphor to allude to what.



Please explain to me the difference between the cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost had fully come and the fire in the lake of fire in The Book of Revelation?

What does this have to do with anything.

[Misty]

I wonder if some Christians, especially those of the more fundamentalist persuasion, see their faith as fire insurance?

And you use the word "fire" as a metaphor to allude to what.

It seems to do little else for them that is for sure.

How do you know this. How do you know what my faith, or the faith of another christian, does for them.

What is the point in having a faith if it doesn't make you a person others relate to, and want to know, rather than making them run a mile?

This makes no sense, there is a fragment error.

But to answer your point, faith is somewhat like fire insurance.

The point of my faith, and probably that faiths of other theists, is that it gives our lives meaning and hope.

I have been around Christian fundies all my life, their faith doesn't make them nicer to know, so one can only conclude, all it means to them is a place in heaven rather than hell if either place exists. Give me oblivion every time!

[Benoni]

Winepusher,
And you use the word "fire" as a metaphor to allude to what.



Please explain to me the difference between the cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost had fully come and the fire in the lake of fire in The Book of Revelation?

What does this have to do with anything.

Are we not speaking of fire in scripture here? Does God's fire change because it is dealing with carnal man compared to believers. By the way it is only the overcomers which are not hurt by the lake of Divine purging or the second death; not all believers are overcomers.

[Benoni]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable

Do you know anything about farming, the chaff is the outer (flesh) of the wheat until the wheat is mature the chaff and the wheat are the same and cannot be separated.


1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


So what is the difference? There is none.

[scottlittlefield17]

I wonder if some Christians, especially those of the more fundamentalist persuasion, see their faith as fire insurance? It seems to do little else for them that is for sure. What is the point in having a faith if it doesn't make you a person others relate to, and want to know, rather than making them run a mile?

I absolutely do not. If God is who he says he is he deserves to be worshiped whether he sends me to hell or not. As for the running a mile, that is your take on it. I know many many others who live around me and my family who are attracted to the way we believe. Some come to church and some don't, we dress and act very differently than 99 percent of other Christians. Let me give you an example, the other week there was a small forest fire and me and a friend from church found it. We called it in and the investigating Ranger began to question us with suspicion. Several of the firefighters in the area pulled the Ranger aside and said "These boys would never do something like that, I know them and they are good people!". Those firefighters have no affiliation with our church. In fact I'm couldn't even tell you all their names. Neither could my friend but they had seen us in the area and knew what we stood for. I'm not trying to boast or anything but the two families in the area that are members of our church are held in VERY high regard by anybody who has had contact with us. From literally druggies and arsonists to your average Joe to the very rich.

[ChaosBorders]

Job 32:9 & 13 says, "Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged always understand judgment. Lest ye should say: we have found out wisdom - God thrusteth him down, not man." Job's three friends mistakenly thought that the sole purpose of God's judgement is punitive.

I agree that they were mistaken, however:

They could not comprehend that the purpose of judgement is always to bring about a restoration or an advancement into the ways of the Lord.

In what way do you figure that Job's situation was the result of judgment? As you point out:

God was already pleased with Job

Further, though ultimately

he had a plan that would make Job even better.

is technically a true statement,

Job was a perfect man, but his perfection needed to be tested.

is illogical in that an omniscient being has no true need of 'testing' someone. At least not by any standardly used conception of a 'test'.

Job said, "God knoweth the way that I take, and when He hath tried me I shall come forth as gold. For HE performeth the thing that is appointed for me, and many such things are with Him." Job 23:10 & 14. God has prepared a special kind of testing for each individual. In Job 32.13, Elihu said, "God thrusteth Job down, and not man." We can well add, "And not Satan, either!" God takes the full responsibility for every person's fall. These are parts of His ways. All negative forces are as a dog on a leash. They can only do what they are allowed to do by the Hand that holds the leash. The perplexities, the trials, the testings, the pressures and the failures are all God's responsibility

Except for the testing part, that is all a fair inference from the book of Job. However:

and it will all be worked into our good.

That just plumb falls out of the book of Job completely. When interpreting it through the lens of new testament writings and a belief in heaven, it is perhaps understandable how one arrives at this conclusion. But if taken on its own, tacking on 'and it will all be worked into our good' completely misses the original point. Job spends a large portion of the book discussing God's seemingly harsh treatment of the innocent while the wicked prosper, with no apparent justice involved and no expectation of the rewards he ended up receiving. All of his friends argue against him, but God vindicates Job. Making the conclusion that 'it will all be worked into our good' is entirely outside of the scope of this book.

So though I agree with a lot of your conclusions, some of them are simply not supportable using Job.

[Misty]

Doing the right thing has nothing to do with faith, just humanity, imo.

A God who would send anyone to hell doesn't deserve any respect, let alone worship!