According to the American Journal of Psychiatry, those who are religiously affiliated have a "significantly lower" rate of taking their own life.
Why do Atheists and those not religiously affiliated thus have a significantly higher rate? Is Society so overwhelmingly oppressive and religious that it causes the non-believers to want the fast way out? Do Atheists in general have a weaker will to live? Are religious people bullying them so they can't take it anymore? If so, why do countries like South Korea which are nearly 50% Atheist have one of the worst suicide rates? Is it just "part of their culture"?
Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members.
Now I know from personal experience at least, that Atheists having less contact with family members is not always (or usually) the result of being "shunned" by the religious members, but the result of the Atheist not wanting to be around the religious members. As for being "younger", it's the older folks have by far the highest suicide rate, so there's an anomaly in this variable. Does marriage prevent suicide? (You'd think from the anti-marriage rhetoric it's the opposite). If so, is there a corrolation with the tendency for Atheists to not get married?
I am aware of all the scripture in the Bible that relates to burnt offerings. I think you are missing an important distinction between sacrificing animals and sacrificing children.
You do realize that they have killed and offered women and children as burnt offerings right. Remember that little war going on?.. And you do know of this right?:
Jephthah Burns His Daughter
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin.
There is a big difference.
Their is no difference. It's animal sacrifice, and humans are animals too. The key point here is that both cults revolved around burnt offerings to their God's.. These are fire/volcano cults.
And, as I already stated, Biblical and extrabibilical sources do show that the Israelites did practice these things. But the Bible makes it very clear that this was not condoned by God, and that it the Isrealites interaction with the Canaanite tribes that inspired them to do such things.
It was condoned by the GOD.. and this is a key point:
(Exodus 22:19)
Whoever sacrifices to any God, except the Lord alone, shall be put to death.
And didn't condone it? Hell he supposedly loved the smell of it! :
20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma…
Exodus 29
15 “Take one of the rams, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 16 Slaughter it and take the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides. 17 Cut the ram into pieces and wash the inner parts and the legs, putting them with the head and the other pieces. 18 Then burn the entire ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the LORD, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
19 “Take the other ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 20 Slaughter it, take some of its blood and put it on the lobes of the right ears of Aaron and his sons, on the thumbs of their right hands, and on the big toes of their right feet. Then sprinkle blood against the altar on all sides. 21 And take some of the blood on the altar and some of the anointing oil and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments and on his sons and their garments. Then he and his sons and their garments will be consecrated.
22 “Take from this ram the fat, the fat tail, the fat around the inner parts, the covering of the liver, both kidneys with the fat on them, and the right thigh. (This is the ram for the ordination.) 23 From the basket of bread made without yeast, which is before the LORD, take a loaf, and a cake made with oil, and a wafer. 24 Put all these in the hands of Aaron and his sons and wave them before the LORD as a wave offering. 25 Then take them from their hands and burn them on the altar along with the burnt offering for a pleasing aroma to the LORD, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
40 With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering. 41 Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning—a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 1
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.
3 � ‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it will be acceptable to the LORD. 4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron’s sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
10 � ‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, he is to offer a male without defect. 11 He is to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the LORD, and Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 12 He is to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 13 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of it and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
14 � ‘If the offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, he is to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop with its contents and throw it to the east side of the altar, where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 2
The Grain Offering
1 � ‘When someone brings a grain offering to the LORD, his offering is to be of fine flour. He is to pour oil on it, put incense on it 2 and take it to Aaron’s sons the priests. The priest shall take a handful of the fine flour and oil, together with all the incense, and burn this as a memorial portion on the altar, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 3 The rest of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons; it is a most holy part of the offerings made to the LORD by fire.
4 � ‘If you bring a grain offering baked in an oven, it is to consist of fine flour: cakes made without yeast and mixed with oil, or wafers made without yeast and spread with oil. 5 If your grain offering is prepared on a griddle, it is to be made of fine flour mixed with oil, and without yeast. 6 Crumble it and pour oil on it; it is a grain offering. 7 If your grain offering is cooked in a pan, it is to be made of fine flour and oil. 8 Bring the grain offering made of these things to the LORD; present it to the priest, who shall take it to the altar. 9 He shall take out the memorial portion from the grain offering and burn it on the altar as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 10 The rest of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons; it is a most holy part of the offerings made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 3
The Fellowship Offering
1 � ‘If someone’s offering is a fellowship offering, and he offers an animal from the herd, whether male or female, he is to present before the LORD an animal without defect. 2 He is to lay his hand on the head of his offering and slaughter it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle the blood against the altar on all sides. 3 From the fellowship offering he is to bring a sacrifice made to the LORD by fire: all the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, 4 both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys. 5 Then Aaron’s sons are to burn it on the altar on top of the burnt offering that is on the burning wood, as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
12 � ‘If his offering is a goat, he is to present it before the LORD. 13 He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it in front of the Tent of Meeting. Then Aaron’s sons shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 14 From what he offers he is to make this offering to the LORD by fire: all the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, 15 both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys. 16 The priest shall burn them on the altar as food, an offering made by fire, a pleasing aroma. All the fat is the LORD’s.
Leviticus 4
27 � ‘If a member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD’s commands, he is guilty. 28 When he is made aware of the sin he committed, he must bring as his offering for the sin he committed a female goat without defect. 29 He is to lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it at the place of the burnt offering. 30 Then the priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. 31 He shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven.
Leviticus 6
The Grain Offering
14 � ‘These are the regulations for the grain offering: Aaron’s sons are to bring it before the LORD, in front of the altar. 15 The priest is to take a handful of fine flour and oil, together with all the incense on the grain offering, and burn the memorial portion on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 16 Aaron and his sons shall eat the rest of it, but it is to be eaten without yeast in a holy place; they are to eat it in the courtyard of the Tent of Meeting. 17 It must not be baked with yeast; I have given it as their share of the offerings made to me by fire. Like the sin offering and the guilt offering, it is most holy. 18 Any male descendant of Aaron may eat it. It is his regular share of the offerings made to the LORD by fire for the generations to come. Whatever touches them will become holy. ‘ “
19 The LORD also said to Moses, 20 �This is the offering Aaron and his sons are to bring to the LORD on the day he is anointed: a tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a regular grain offering, half of it in the morning and half in the evening. 21 Prepare it with oil on a griddle; bring it well-mixed and present the grain offering broken in pieces as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 22 The son who is to succeed him as anointed priest shall prepare it. It is the LORD’s regular share and is to be burned completely. 23 Every grain offering of a priest shall be burned completely; it must not be eaten.�
Leviticus 8
19 Then Moses slaughtered the ram and sprinkled the blood against the altar on all sides. 20 He cut the ram into pieces and burned the head, the pieces and the fat. 21 He washed the inner parts and the legs with water and burned the whole ram on the altar as a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire, as the LORD commanded Moses.
26 Then from the basket of bread made without yeast, which was before the LORD, he took a cake of bread, and one made with oil, and a wafer; he put these on the fat portions and on the right thigh. 27 He put all these in the hands of Aaron and his sons and waved them before the LORD as a wave offering. 28 Then Moses took them from their hands and burned them on the altar on top of the burnt offering as an ordination offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 17
6 The priest is to sprinkle the blood against the altar of the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and burn the fat as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 23
9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil—an offering made to the LORD by fire, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin of wine.
Numbers 15
Supplementary Offerings
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘After you enter the land I am giving you as a home 3 and you present to the LORD offerings made by fire, from the herd or the flock, as an aroma pleasing to the LORD -whether burnt offerings or sacrifices, for special vows or freewill offerings or festival offerings- 4 then the one who brings his offering shall present to the LORD a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil. 5 With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.
6 � ‘With a ram prepare a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a third of a hin of oil, 7 and a third of a hin of wine as a drink offering. Offer it as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
8 � ‘When you prepare a young bull as a burnt offering or sacrifice, for a special vow or a fellowship offering to the LORD, 9 bring with the bull a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with half a hin of oil. 10 Also bring half a hin of wine as a drink offering. It will be an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 11 Each bull or ram, each lamb or young goat, is to be prepared in this manner. 12 Do this for each one, for as many as you prepare.
13 � ‘Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when he brings an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. 15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD : 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.’ “
17 The LORD said to Moses, 18 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land to which I am taking you 19 and you eat the food of the land, present a portion as an offering to the LORD. 20 Present a cake from the first of your ground meal and present it as an offering from the threshing floor. 21 Throughout the generations to come you are to give this offering to the LORD from the first of your ground meal.
Offerings for Unintentional Sins
22 � ‘Now if you unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the LORD gave Moses- 23 any of the LORD’s commands to you through him, from the day the LORD gave them and continuing through the generations to come- 24 and if this is done unintentionally without the community being aware of it, then the whole community is to offer a young bull for a burnt offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, along with its prescribed grain offering and drink offering, and a male goat for a sin offering.
Numbers 18
17 �But you must not redeem the firstborn of an ox, a sheep or a goat; they are holy. Sprinkle their blood on the altar and burn their fat as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Numbers 28
Daily Offerings
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Give this command to the Israelites and say to them: ‘See that you present to me at the appointed time the food for my offerings made by fire, as an aroma pleasing to me.’ 3 Say to them: ‘This is the offering made by fire that you are to present to the LORD : two lambs a year old without defect, as a regular burnt offering each day. 4 Prepare one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight, 5 together with a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives. 6 This is the regular burnt offering instituted at Mount Sinai as a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire. 7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the LORD at the sanctuary. 8 Prepare the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you prepare in the morning. This is an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Monthly Offerings
11 � ‘On the first of every month, present to the LORD a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 12 With each bull there is to be a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; 13 and with each lamb, a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil. This is for a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire. 14 With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year. 15 Besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering, one male goat is to be presented to the LORD as a sin offering.
The Passover
16 � ‘On the fourteenth day of the first month the LORD’s Passover is to be held. 17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 19 Present to the LORD an offering made by fire, a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 20 With each bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 21 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 22 Include one male goat as a sin offering to make atonement for you. 23 Prepare these in addition to the regular morning burnt offering. 24 In this way prepare the food for the offering made by fire every day for seven days as an aroma pleasing to the LORD; it is to be prepared in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25 On the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
Feast of Weeks
26 � ‘On the day of firstfruits, when you present to the LORD an offering of new grain during the Feast of Weeks, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 27 Present a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Numbers 29
Feast of Trumpets
1 � ‘On the first day of the seventh month hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. It is a day for you to sound the trumpets. 2 As an aroma pleasing to the LORD, prepare a burnt offering of one young bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 3 With the bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 4 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 5 Include one male goat as a sin offering to make atonement for you. 6 These are in addition to the monthly and daily burnt offerings with their grain offerings and drink offerings as specified. They are offerings made to the LORD by fire—a pleasing aroma.
Day of Atonement
7 � ‘On the tenth day of this seventh month hold a sacred assembly. You must deny yourselves and do no work. 8 Present as an aroma pleasing to the LORD a burnt offering of one young bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 9 With the bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 10 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 11 Include one male goat as a sin offering, in addition to the sin offering for atonement and the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.
Feast of Tabernacles
12 � ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. Celebrate a festival to the LORD for seven days. 13 Present an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, a burnt offering of thirteen young bulls, two rams and fourteen male lambs a year old, all without defect.
35 � ‘On the eighth day hold an assembly and do no regular work. 36 Present an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, a burnt offering of one bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect.
But let's move on:
Also, you don't seem to have an understanding of atonement as it is described in the Bible. The Torah lays down a comprehensive system for how the Israelites were to atone for their sins, and this involved the shedding of blood. All of this, in particular the Passover, was a foreshadowing of the atoning death of Jesus. It has nothing to do with volcanos and fire Gods, which by the way, is a fringe concept that you don't even hear about outside of the walls of this internet site, and you seem to be the only one who is talking about it here.
Wrong.. It has a lot to do with a Volcano / fire GOD. That is what Yahweh is. And you haven't heard much about it because in the religious circles, it's not something to talk about when trying to uphold a belief in a deity.. It's been clearly avoided, but can not actually be denied on any sort of intellectual basis when you actually read the bible. The evidence for it being a volcano / fire GOD far exceeds the evidence for Pelee being one. It's blatantly obvious. I can even add further evidence:
A proto-Sinaitic mine inscription from Mount Sinai reads ʼl�‘lm understood to be vocalized as ʼil �ū ‘ôlmi, 'ʼĒl Eternal' or 'God Eternal'.
The theological position of the Tanakh is that the names Ēl and ’Ĕl�hîm, when used in the singular to mean the supreme and active 'God', refer to the same being as does the name, Yahweh. All three refer to the one supreme god who is the god of Israel, beside whom other gods are supposed to be either non-existent or insignificant. Whether this was a longstanding belief or a relatively new one has long been the subject of inconclusive scholarly debate about the prehistory of the sources of the Tanakh and about the prehistory of Israelite religion. In the P strand, YHVH says in Exodus 6.2–3:
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shadd�i, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.
This suggests the identity of Yahweh is Ēl, in his aspect of Shadd�i, and the god called Shadd�i.. and I went over what that has to do with it being a Fire / volcano god in my link..
But the Bible makes it very clear that this was not condoned by God, and that it the Isrealites interaction with the Canaanite tribes that inspired them to do such things.
No it doesn't.. The bible makes it clear that sacrificing to other gods was the problem.. Burnt offerings to Baal wasn't exactly kewl for a jealous GOD like Yahweh...
. The Torah lays down a comprehensive system for how the Israelites were to atone for their sins, and this involved the shedding of blood.
There is a lot of the problems with the Torah I could get into, but to simplify, this is still cult behavior. But let's get back to Genocide and infanticide and go over Genesis:
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, "I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing--all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them."
Genesis 6:17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.
Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.
Genesis 7:21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Genesis 7:22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.
(Warning: Don't actually do the following):
Get a Camera and go record yourself drowning baby bunnies, kittens, puppies, or a few newborn infants while exclaiming how they are abominations, unclean, and how you are sorry for ever having them. Put it on youtube and then comeback to me on how that rationally, morally, and ethically works out for you. Do you have enough love to drown a baby bunny? Maybe this one?:
You can than place yourself right up there with the GI's that killed a puppy!.
Senseless killing makes so much logical and psychological sense if it's "Righteous"! ??. Is this not genocide and infanticide? Because is sure looks like the ultimate example of it sir :/ These bible verses had a lot to do with me dumping the religion to where I became a deist for a while. It wasn't for some time later that I became an Atheist however.
I am aware of all the scripture in the Bible that relates to burnt offerings. I think you are missing an important distinction between sacrificing animals and sacrificing children.
You do realize that they have killed and offered women and children as burnt offerings right. Remember that little war going on?.. And you do know of this right?:
Jephthah Burns His Daughter
"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin.
There is a big difference.
Their is no difference. It's animal sacrifice, and humans are animals too. The key point here is that both cults revolved around burnt offerings to their God's.. These are fire/volcano cults.
And, as I already stated, Biblical and extrabibilical sources do show that the Israelites did practice these things. But the Bible makes it very clear that this was not condoned by God, and that it the Isrealites interaction with the Canaanite tribes that inspired them to do such things.
It was condoned by the GOD.. and this is a key point:
(Exodus 22:19)
Whoever sacrifices to any God, except the Lord alone, shall be put to death.
And didn't condone it? Hell he supposedly loved the smell of it! :
20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma…
Exodus 29
15 “Take one of the rams, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 16 Slaughter it and take the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides. 17 Cut the ram into pieces and wash the inner parts and the legs, putting them with the head and the other pieces. 18 Then burn the entire ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the LORD, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
19 “Take the other ram, and Aaron and his sons shall lay their hands on its head. 20 Slaughter it, take some of its blood and put it on the lobes of the right ears of Aaron and his sons, on the thumbs of their right hands, and on the big toes of their right feet. Then sprinkle blood against the altar on all sides. 21 And take some of the blood on the altar and some of the anointing oil and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments and on his sons and their garments. Then he and his sons and their garments will be consecrated.
22 “Take from this ram the fat, the fat tail, the fat around the inner parts, the covering of the liver, both kidneys with the fat on them, and the right thigh. (This is the ram for the ordination.) 23 From the basket of bread made without yeast, which is before the LORD, take a loaf, and a cake made with oil, and a wafer. 24 Put all these in the hands of Aaron and his sons and wave them before the LORD as a wave offering. 25 Then take them from their hands and burn them on the altar along with the burnt offering for a pleasing aroma to the LORD, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
40 With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering. 41 Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning—a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 1
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.
3 � ‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it will be acceptable to the LORD. 4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron’s sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
10 � ‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, he is to offer a male without defect. 11 He is to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the LORD, and Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 12 He is to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 13 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of it and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
14 � ‘If the offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, he is to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop with its contents and throw it to the east side of the altar, where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 2
The Grain Offering
1 � ‘When someone brings a grain offering to the LORD, his offering is to be of fine flour. He is to pour oil on it, put incense on it 2 and take it to Aaron’s sons the priests. The priest shall take a handful of the fine flour and oil, together with all the incense, and burn this as a memorial portion on the altar, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 3 The rest of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons; it is a most holy part of the offerings made to the LORD by fire.
4 � ‘If you bring a grain offering baked in an oven, it is to consist of fine flour: cakes made without yeast and mixed with oil, or wafers made without yeast and spread with oil. 5 If your grain offering is prepared on a griddle, it is to be made of fine flour mixed with oil, and without yeast. 6 Crumble it and pour oil on it; it is a grain offering. 7 If your grain offering is cooked in a pan, it is to be made of fine flour and oil. 8 Bring the grain offering made of these things to the LORD; present it to the priest, who shall take it to the altar. 9 He shall take out the memorial portion from the grain offering and burn it on the altar as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 10 The rest of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and his sons; it is a most holy part of the offerings made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 3
The Fellowship Offering
1 � ‘If someone’s offering is a fellowship offering, and he offers an animal from the herd, whether male or female, he is to present before the LORD an animal without defect. 2 He is to lay his hand on the head of his offering and slaughter it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. Then Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle the blood against the altar on all sides. 3 From the fellowship offering he is to bring a sacrifice made to the LORD by fire: all the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, 4 both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys. 5 Then Aaron’s sons are to burn it on the altar on top of the burnt offering that is on the burning wood, as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
12 � ‘If his offering is a goat, he is to present it before the LORD. 13 He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it in front of the Tent of Meeting. Then Aaron’s sons shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 14 From what he offers he is to make this offering to the LORD by fire: all the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, 15 both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys. 16 The priest shall burn them on the altar as food, an offering made by fire, a pleasing aroma. All the fat is the LORD’s.
Leviticus 4
27 � ‘If a member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD’s commands, he is guilty. 28 When he is made aware of the sin he committed, he must bring as his offering for the sin he committed a female goat without defect. 29 He is to lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it at the place of the burnt offering. 30 Then the priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. 31 He shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven.
Leviticus 6
The Grain Offering
14 � ‘These are the regulations for the grain offering: Aaron’s sons are to bring it before the LORD, in front of the altar. 15 The priest is to take a handful of fine flour and oil, together with all the incense on the grain offering, and burn the memorial portion on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 16 Aaron and his sons shall eat the rest of it, but it is to be eaten without yeast in a holy place; they are to eat it in the courtyard of the Tent of Meeting. 17 It must not be baked with yeast; I have given it as their share of the offerings made to me by fire. Like the sin offering and the guilt offering, it is most holy. 18 Any male descendant of Aaron may eat it. It is his regular share of the offerings made to the LORD by fire for the generations to come. Whatever touches them will become holy. ‘ “
19 The LORD also said to Moses, 20 �This is the offering Aaron and his sons are to bring to the LORD on the day he is anointed: a tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a regular grain offering, half of it in the morning and half in the evening. 21 Prepare it with oil on a griddle; bring it well-mixed and present the grain offering broken in pieces as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 22 The son who is to succeed him as anointed priest shall prepare it. It is the LORD’s regular share and is to be burned completely. 23 Every grain offering of a priest shall be burned completely; it must not be eaten.�
Leviticus 8
19 Then Moses slaughtered the ram and sprinkled the blood against the altar on all sides. 20 He cut the ram into pieces and burned the head, the pieces and the fat. 21 He washed the inner parts and the legs with water and burned the whole ram on the altar as a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire, as the LORD commanded Moses.
26 Then from the basket of bread made without yeast, which was before the LORD, he took a cake of bread, and one made with oil, and a wafer; he put these on the fat portions and on the right thigh. 27 He put all these in the hands of Aaron and his sons and waved them before the LORD as a wave offering. 28 Then Moses took them from their hands and burned them on the altar on top of the burnt offering as an ordination offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
Leviticus 17
6 The priest is to sprinkle the blood against the altar of the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and burn the fat as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 23
9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil—an offering made to the LORD by fire, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin of wine.
Numbers 15
Supplementary Offerings
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘After you enter the land I am giving you as a home 3 and you present to the LORD offerings made by fire, from the herd or the flock, as an aroma pleasing to the LORD -whether burnt offerings or sacrifices, for special vows or freewill offerings or festival offerings- 4 then the one who brings his offering shall present to the LORD a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil. 5 With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.
6 � ‘With a ram prepare a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a third of a hin of oil, 7 and a third of a hin of wine as a drink offering. Offer it as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
8 � ‘When you prepare a young bull as a burnt offering or sacrifice, for a special vow or a fellowship offering to the LORD, 9 bring with the bull a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with half a hin of oil. 10 Also bring half a hin of wine as a drink offering. It will be an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 11 Each bull or ram, each lamb or young goat, is to be prepared in this manner. 12 Do this for each one, for as many as you prepare.
13 � ‘Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when he brings an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. 15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD : 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.’ “
17 The LORD said to Moses, 18 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land to which I am taking you 19 and you eat the food of the land, present a portion as an offering to the LORD. 20 Present a cake from the first of your ground meal and present it as an offering from the threshing floor. 21 Throughout the generations to come you are to give this offering to the LORD from the first of your ground meal.
Offerings for Unintentional Sins
22 � ‘Now if you unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the LORD gave Moses- 23 any of the LORD’s commands to you through him, from the day the LORD gave them and continuing through the generations to come- 24 and if this is done unintentionally without the community being aware of it, then the whole community is to offer a young bull for a burnt offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, along with its prescribed grain offering and drink offering, and a male goat for a sin offering.
Numbers 18
17 �But you must not redeem the firstborn of an ox, a sheep or a goat; they are holy. Sprinkle their blood on the altar and burn their fat as an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Numbers 28
Daily Offerings
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Give this command to the Israelites and say to them: ‘See that you present to me at the appointed time the food for my offerings made by fire, as an aroma pleasing to me.’ 3 Say to them: ‘This is the offering made by fire that you are to present to the LORD : two lambs a year old without defect, as a regular burnt offering each day. 4 Prepare one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight, 5 together with a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives. 6 This is the regular burnt offering instituted at Mount Sinai as a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire. 7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the LORD at the sanctuary. 8 Prepare the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you prepare in the morning. This is an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Monthly Offerings
11 � ‘On the first of every month, present to the LORD a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 12 With each bull there is to be a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; 13 and with each lamb, a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil. This is for a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire. 14 With each bull there is to be a drink offering of half a hin of wine; with the ram, a third of a hin; and with each lamb, a quarter of a hin. This is the monthly burnt offering to be made at each new moon during the year. 15 Besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering, one male goat is to be presented to the LORD as a sin offering.
The Passover
16 � ‘On the fourteenth day of the first month the LORD’s Passover is to be held. 17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 19 Present to the LORD an offering made by fire, a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 20 With each bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 21 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 22 Include one male goat as a sin offering to make atonement for you. 23 Prepare these in addition to the regular morning burnt offering. 24 In this way prepare the food for the offering made by fire every day for seven days as an aroma pleasing to the LORD; it is to be prepared in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25 On the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
Feast of Weeks
26 � ‘On the day of firstfruits, when you present to the LORD an offering of new grain during the Feast of Weeks, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 27 Present a burnt offering of two young bulls, one ram and seven male lambs a year old as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Numbers 29
Feast of Trumpets
1 � ‘On the first day of the seventh month hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. It is a day for you to sound the trumpets. 2 As an aroma pleasing to the LORD, prepare a burnt offering of one young bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 3 With the bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 4 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 5 Include one male goat as a sin offering to make atonement for you. 6 These are in addition to the monthly and daily burnt offerings with their grain offerings and drink offerings as specified. They are offerings made to the LORD by fire—a pleasing aroma.
Day of Atonement
7 � ‘On the tenth day of this seventh month hold a sacred assembly. You must deny yourselves and do no work. 8 Present as an aroma pleasing to the LORD a burnt offering of one young bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect. 9 With the bull prepare a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil; with the ram, two-tenths; 10 and with each of the seven lambs, one-tenth. 11 Include one male goat as a sin offering, in addition to the sin offering for atonement and the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.
Feast of Tabernacles
12 � ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. Celebrate a festival to the LORD for seven days. 13 Present an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, a burnt offering of thirteen young bulls, two rams and fourteen male lambs a year old, all without defect.
35 � ‘On the eighth day hold an assembly and do no regular work. 36 Present an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, a burnt offering of one bull, one ram and seven male lambs a year old, all without defect.
But let's move on:
Also, you don't seem to have an understanding of atonement as it is described in the Bible. The Torah lays down a comprehensive system for how the Israelites were to atone for their sins, and this involved the shedding of blood. All of this, in particular the Passover, was a foreshadowing of the atoning death of Jesus. It has nothing to do with volcanos and fire Gods, which by the way, is a fringe concept that you don't even hear about outside of the walls of this internet site, and you seem to be the only one who is talking about it here.
Wrong.. It has a lot to do with a Volcano / fire GOD. That is what Yahweh is. And you haven't heard much about it because in the religious circles, it's not something to talk about when trying to uphold a belief in a deity.. It's been clearly avoided, but can not actually be denied on any sort of intellectual basis when you actually read the bible. The evidence for it being a volcano / fire GOD far exceeds the evidence for Pelee being one. It's blatantly obvious. I can even add further evidence:
A proto-Sinaitic mine inscription from Mount Sinai reads ʼl�‘lm understood to be vocalized as ʼil �ū ‘ôlmi, 'ʼĒl Eternal' or 'God Eternal'.
The theological position of the Tanakh is that the names Ēl and ’Ĕl�hîm, when used in the singular to mean the supreme and active 'God', refer to the same being as does the name, Yahweh. All three refer to the one supreme god who is the god of Israel, beside whom other gods are supposed to be either non-existent or insignificant. Whether this was a longstanding belief or a relatively new one has long been the subject of inconclusive scholarly debate about the prehistory of the sources of the Tanakh and about the prehistory of Israelite religion. In the P strand, YHVH says in Exodus 6.2–3:
I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shadd�i, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.
This suggests the identity of Yahweh is Ēl, in his aspect of Shadd�i, and the god called Shadd�i.. and I went over what that has to do with it being a Fire / volcano god in my link..
But the Bible makes it very clear that this was not condoned by God, and that it the Isrealites interaction with the Canaanite tribes that inspired them to do such things.
No it doesn't.. The bible makes it clear that sacrificing to other gods was the problem.. Burnt offerings to Baal wasn't exactly kewl for a jealous GOD like Yahweh...
. The Torah lays down a comprehensive system for how the Israelites were to atone for their sins, and this involved the shedding of blood.
There is a lot of the problems with the Torah I could get into, but to simplify, this is still cult behavior. But let's get back to Genocide and infanticide and go over Genesis:
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, "I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing--all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them."
Genesis 6:17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.
Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.
Genesis 7:21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Genesis 7:22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.
(Warning: Don't actually do the following):
Get a Camera and go record yourself drowning baby bunnies, kittens, puppies, or a few newborn infants while exclaiming how they are abominations, unclean, and how you are sorry for ever having them. Put it on youtube and then comeback to me on how that rationally, morally, and ethically works out for you. Do you have enough love to drown a baby bunny? Maybe this one?:
You can than place yourself right up there with the GI's that killed a puppy!.
Senseless killing makes so much logical and psychological sense if it's "Righteous"! ??. Is this not genocide and infanticide? Because is sure looks like the ultimate example of it sir :/ These bible verses had a lot to do with me dumping the religion to where I became a deist for a while. It wasn't for some time later that I became an Atheist however.
I think what it all comes down to, and what is not being taken into account here, is the issue of evil. Moral evil is major theme in the entire Bible, and in fact the whole Biblical story is about a God who overcomes evil. It starts with the image in the garden, where Satan says that people can become like God, knowing good and evil. And it ends with the ultimate triumph over evil by the work of Jesus. You seem to enjoy picking verses out of the Bible and telling people what you think they mean, but, with all due respect, you aren't acknowledging these important themes that provide a foundation for understanding the Bible. For example, it is stated repeatedly in the Torah that the Israelites must purge the evil that is in their midst. Or take another example from the flood story. You have quoted the flood story on a couple of different occasions. But you took the passage out of context and didn't present the first part of it which says:
The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. Genesis 6:5-6
and... Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.Genesis 6:11-12
These are powerful words, and I don't think we can even comprehend what it looks like when every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart is evil continually, and the earth is corrupt. Or perhaps it didn't look a whole lot different than the world we live in today?
We seem to live in a world where people are purportedly interested in justice, yet they don't always have very strong moral parameters to define what it is. Because, in order to define and establish what justice is, you have to determine what evil is and stand against it. And this, I would argue, is a big part of the Christian faith. Christians are called to acknowledge the sin in their own hearts, and then purge the evil from their lives. We do this because we are given a strong moral standard that defines precisely what evil and good are.
You can throw Bible verses at me all you want, but, with all due respect, until you acknowledge that there are important themes of evil vs. good, morality vs. immorality, that run literally all the way through the Bible, and are foundational to to understanding not only the text, but also the character of God, I don't think we are going to get anywhere. In that regard, I sense that this conversation is sort of coming to a close. At least on my end. Thanks.
I think what it all comes down to, and what is not being taken into account here, is the issue of evil.
An all loving omnipotent GOD allowing evil to exist is nonsensical and entirely illogical.
Moral evil is major theme in the entire Bible
Genocide and infanticide is now moral evil? WTF?..
Biblical story is about a God who overcomes evil.
He's doing a pretty piss poor job for being omnipotent and omniscient ect.. It's even worse when his first round of erasing abominations like baby animals end up becoming a reality all over again by the logic of saving 2 of each.. As if that would solve the problem in a world where life must compete and murder itself in order to reproduce and survive ect.. There is absolutely nothing even remotely coherent about this..
It starts with the image in the garden, where Satan says that people can become like God, knowing good and evil.
Oh, only GOD can know good and evil? Wha? Is that privileged information? I thought it was a consequence of being conscious! .. And a talking snake? really?... Where was your GOD to get rid of this snake to prevent it from corrupting his supposedly "perfect" creation? .. Is this triumph over good and evil even necessary, or is just a game of amusement by an omnipotent being?
Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.Genesis 6:11-12
He should have done a better job creating this supposed world then.. It's like a bomb maker blaming the bomb for blowing up in his face.. And sorry, he slaughtered every living thing on the face of the earth. All the babies, kittens, puppies, un-born infants, school children in one giant abortion.. Nothing like drowning all your kids in the bath tub eh? Worst of all, you can't drown every living thing that breaths air.. Seals and whales ect can not only swim, but float..
Or perhaps it didn't look a whole lot different than the world we live in today?
here's a novel idea... make death impossible, starvation impossible, and sin impossible and you solve the majority of the worlds problems, and justice system becomes unnecessary and meaningless. So are you telling me your omnipotent and all knowing deity could only come up with a solution of genocide and infanticide to try and correct the problems he had seen with his supposed perfect creations? No snap of the fingers and all better without killing??... Why isn't heaven the only state of existence?
So here is a kicker.. If I were this GOD of yours..., None of this nonsense would even exist. There would only ever be total and utter complete bliss...
