Is Jesus same MashiH?

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Yusef
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Is Jesus same MashiH?

Post #1

Post by Yusef »

I think the messiah of Judaism was same Jesus!
Is that true?

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bluethread
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Re: Is Jesus same MashiH?

Post #2

Post by bluethread »

Yusef wrote:I think the messiah of Judaism was same Jesus!
Is that true?
I think so.

cnorman18

Post #3

Post by cnorman18 »

This was my very first post on this forum, almost five years ago. I see no reason to change a word of it.

Why Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah

I am also reporting this post as a violation of the subforum rules. You don't get to come to the Judaism forum and proselytize for Christianity.
Last edited by cnorman18 on Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #4

Post by otseng »

Moderator Action

Moved to Christianity and Apologetics subforum.

Haven

Post #5

Post by Haven »

I have little to add to Charles' excellent post, but I'll reiterate that no, Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. Ignoring the fact that a large number of Jews today don't take the Messiah concept literally, Jesus still failed to fulfill the Jewish prophecies even if they are understood in a more literal manner. The Messiah was supposed to be an earthly political leader, Jesus was not, therefore he wasn't the Messiah.

cnorman18

Post #6

Post by cnorman18 »

Haven wrote:I have little to add to Charles' excellent post, but I'll reiterate that no, Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. Ignoring the fact that a large number of Jews today don't take the Messiah concept literally, Jesus still failed to fulfill the Jewish prophecies even if they are understood in a more literal manner. The Messiah was supposed to be an earthly political leader, Jesus was not, therefore he wasn't the Messiah.
I have often put it this way; the concepts of the Jewish Messiah and of the Christian Christ are two separate and unrelated concepts. I say nothing about whether Jesus was the Christ; that isn't my business. But he was NOT the Messiah.

Haven

Re: Is Jesus same MashiH?

Post #7

Post by Haven »

bluethread wrote: I think so.
What leads you to believe Jesus was the Jewish Messiah? How would you respond to the arguments Jews give against your claim?

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Post #8

Post by Yusef »

because of saying of Islam I think this claim is true: Jesus in Islam
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

cnorman18

Post #9

Post by cnorman18 »

Yusef wrote:because of saying of Islam I think this claim is true: Jesus in Islam
I have nothing to say about the truth or falsity of any beliefs of Islam; that isn't my business either.

However, let me point out that in the Muslim faith, the figure and role of Jesus is different from his role in EITHER Judaism or Christianity. Christianity teaches that Jesus was God Incarnate, i.e. that Jesus himself was actually God. Islam, of course, does NOT teach that Jesus was Allah; Islam is at least as radically monotheistic as Judaism, and such a claim would be blasphemy. It is my understanding that in Islam, it is taught that Jesus was both the Jewish Messiah and a prophet of Islam.

As far as Judaism was or is concerned, of course, Jesus was an ordinary man and a person of no special significance. We Jews spend about as much time thinking about Jesus as we do thinking about the Buddha or Muhammad -- that is, very little to not at all.

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Post #10

Post by Mithrae »

I may be wrong about this, but to my knowledge in the Tanakh the term 'messiah' is used numerous times in references to priests and kings, but on only three occasions to a specific future leader: Twice in Isaiah with reference to Cyrus, and once in Daniel when it's said that an 'anointed one' will be 'cut off' - followed shortly thereafter by the temple's destruction.

I am certainly open to correction on that point.

Pending that, I wonder which parts of the Jewish scriptures - Isaiah 11 perhaps, extrapolated to this 'messiah' rather than Hezekiah? - can be demonstrably identified as 'messianic' prophecies or expectations? Christians do not deny (in fact it's part of their very gospels) that Jews were hoping for a military saviour. And I certainly recognise that in many respects the Christians' use of the Tanakh is either misguided and ignorant or thoroughly deceitful.

But having read through Cnorman's first post, I don't think I saw any biblical references to this 'messiah' he's talking about. Without subjecting themsleves to accusation of eisegesis, Christians may have no reference to 'messiah' besides Daniel 9 - but by that same standard, what 'messiah' references do Jews have?

To my mind it seems self-evident that 19th or 20th century Judaism no more represents 1st century Judaism than 19th or 20th century Christianity represents 1st or 2nd century Christianity. So we're reduced (sigh) to the level of looking at ancient writings rather than taking folks' word for it. Was the 'interpretation' and wishful thinking of 1st century Jews obviously superior to the 'interpretation' and wishful thinking of 1st century Christians?

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