Theists don't ask questions

[Blastcat]

Hi

I ask a lot of questions.. and SOMETIMES ( but not always ) get answers.

One of the reasons that I do ask a lot of questions, is that I don't actually learn anything new by proselytizing atheism. I do that a bit, of course, I think it's important that people get to know an atheist and what he thinks about the "big questions" and so on, but I am ALSO here to learn what OTHER people think.

So, the questions.

It just occurred to me that I RARELY get any questions from the theists.
Isn't that odd?

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Question for debate:

• 
  
  Why is it that theists don't seem very curious as to what outsiders to their beliefs think?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 7 by theophile]





[center]Nice dodge, and no questions.[/center]

Well this board is labelled "Christianity and Apologetics."

So the board itself is about Christianity and its defense...

It is not a forum to launch offense on atheism. So either the name of the board should change, or a whole new board is required: "Atheism and Apologetics" perhaps?

Oh, yeah, because the order of the words has so much meaning to you.

What I see from you right now is a weird kind of justification, while IRONICALLY NOT any questions at all to any atheist at all.. The OP asks why do you lack so much curiosity?

Even when atheists ask for questions, we don't get them

It's almost as if some theists don't really care about what others think.

Sometimes, I've laid out more than 25 questions to help me understand ONE Christian post. I think that might be overwhelming so, I cut back on that kind of precision.

How about ONE theist in here ask something like: "Ok, you asked for it... What did you mean by this or that?"

The answers might surprise... but then again there has to be some INTEREST in the answers in the first place. That's why I put it out there.

I'm giving the theists in here a chance to prove me wrong.


I RARELY see any interest in that.
Your reply is a perfect example of a certain amount of the lack of curiosity.


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Question:

• 
  
  If you could ask an atheist just ONE question that's been bugging you for a long time, what would it be?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 6 by Hector Barbosa]


[center]
Pretending to know what I don't really know. ..is just pretend.[/center]

For the Atheists, they know the answer is NOT known and so they need the questions to find the answer they are looking for. Therefore Atheists will have less answers than Theists, but would need far more questions.

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Question:

• 
  
  Let's say that I don't know anything about proposition "X".
  What would you say that I KNOW about proposition "X"?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 19 by theophile]


[center]

You tell us.. I can't be bothered to guess what you happen to believe today[/center]

When it comes down to it, atheism is the denial of a rather broad position. So what is a theist supposed to ask? What source material are they to question?

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Question:

• 
  
  You are asking us to guess at your belief? IF you have any, you tell US.
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 20 by Hector Barbosa]

I love these kinds of questions, which challenge us to seek something better.

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Question:

• 
  
  Something better than what, reality?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 23 by theophile]


[center]Try to make yourself clear so that we know what you are talking about[/center]

No, I was referring to the fact that it deflects from the OP, and provides no information, since you ask...

Either provide a clear (versus "anti") position that can be questioned, or else answer the questions that I posed.

I think that it's correct to challenge atheists.. that's what this whole thread is ABOUT, isn't it?



So, could you spell out your argument clearly, so that everyone knows what it is you are talking about?



I think that most atheists would agree with this statement:
" I don't believe in any gods or goddesses".

I'm very sorry for your purposes that I cannot provide evidence AGAINST your god or goddess beliefs. All I can point to is it's insufficiency and the failures in the reasoning. Perhaps you want atheists to defend "critical thinking" AKA, "skepticism".

Just let us know what you want to ask questions about... We are happy to help you out.

Please be clear.

[theophile]

[Replying to Blastcat]

You are asking us to guess at your belief? IF you have any, you tell US.

Not tracking. My point was that, how is a theist supposed to ask questions of atheists when atheists provide no positive content to critique / question.

You can't question a view which is essentially a denial, unless it's to ask "why do you deny this?" But that question is inherent in the question of the atheist to the theist (i.e. it is implicit in their critique of theism) and therefore requires no asking.

I really don't know how what you say here is a response.

[theophile]

[Replying to post 31 by Blastcat]

Oh, yeah, because the order of the words has so much meaning to you.

Is it true or false that posts not relevant to a board are routinely moved by moderators?

If you could ask an atheist just ONE question that's been bugging you for a long time, what would it be?

I listed a number in post 19.

I also asked why atheists like to dismantle so much but not build. This was in line with the questions posed in 19, all seeking something a little more positive from atheists.

I also asked (following the question posed by Zzyzx) why they like pigeon holing theists and assuming the most basic views that I at least have never associated with.

There are far more nuanced theistic views / readings of the bible than what typically get taken for granted here. Time and again I'm confronted with the same strawman arguments as if they automatically dismiss everything I say: like "but God is omnipotent..." or "but God never makes mistakes" or "but God knows everything"...

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 37 by theophile]



[center]I don't know about you, but I'd like this debate to GET somewhere.[/center]

You are asking us to guess at your belief? IF you have any, you tell US.

Not tracking.

I was referring to this statement of yours:

"When it comes down to it, atheism is the denial of a rather broad position. So what is a theist supposed to ask? What source material are they to question? "


You are asking atheists do define what, exactly?
Every belief possible?

If you HAVE a belief ( And I suppose we are talking about a religious one ) and you WANT to defend it at all, you must first TELL US what it is...

I can't guess, and I won't.



Does that clarify?

My point was that, how is a theist supposed to ask questions of atheists when atheists provide no positive content to critique / question.

Ah
Yes, that would be a problem for you, wouldn't it?

There ARE pro - atheist arguments, you know.
DO you know?

You can't question a view which is essentially a denial, unless it's to ask "why do you deny this?"

Yep, and I take that to be an EXCELLENT question !!!

The whole point of this thread is that I ALMOST NEVER get that kind of question. Isn't that odd?

There have been a very few threads challenging atheists in here... but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

However, when you use a word like "denial", you are more wrong about my reasoning than you are right. Does that bother you at all? Or would you rather just TELL me what I think?

But that question is inherent in the question of the atheist to the theist (i.e. it is implicit in their critique of theism) and therefore requires no asking.

If you think that guessing at someone else's reasoning is a good idea, fine.
I don't.


Why don't you TELL me what I think?


It always seems that I have to "reinvent" the wheel, and always start from the very beginning. If the theist would actually BOTHER to ask, we might be able to get somewhere.



I always seem to be stuck at debate 101.... it's like debate HELL.


"Today class, we will do the same thing as we always do....bicker until the bell rings "

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 31 by Blastcat]

Well I am not exactly a theists, but you called me a creationist, and I have a few questions for you Cat

I will start with 5 and then we can build on that if we get that far.

1. Where does consciousness, thought, love and feelings come from?

2. What evidence is there of anything material being able to create life or anything immaterial?

3. How can you justify a life or any actions without objective morality or a purpose?

4. What started the evolution process or created the Big Bang?

5. Did everything come from nothing? If so what evidence is there that this is even possible? If not when what constant has existed forever and how can you give evidence of that?

Now I assume your answer to most of these questions would be "i don't know" and this is likely the reason why theists don't ask you too many questions. There is not much point in seeking a answer to a question with someone who doesn't know

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 40 by Hector Barbosa]




Lets get some things OFF the table first... I don't know what I don't know. So, yeah, how about we try to focus on what I DO clam to "know"?

Well I am not exactly a theists, but you called me a creationist, and I have a few questions for you Cat

Thank you, that's really cool !!

I think you said that you were skeptical of the theory of evolution. Most people that I know who do that in here ARE creationists.

1. Where does consciousness, thought, love and feelings come from?

I'm not all knowing, but I would say "Brains".
I have no evidence of disembodied minds.

2. What evidence is there of anything material being able to create life or anything immaterial?

Everything that we call "alive" is composed of inorganic mater.
I don't pretend to know what is "immaterial matter", it sounds like an oxymoron to me.. like "married bachelor". Both , meaningless phrases.

3. How can you justify a life or any actions without objective morality or a purpose?

By using perhaps, subjective morality... ?
And... quite subjective purposes, too.

I really have no idea what theists mean when they use the term 'objective morality" other than a morality they believe comes from "God".

I have no reason to believe in any gods or goddesses, so I don't spend a whole lot of time worrying about this so called "God given" morality... or whatever.



I DO know that humans exist, and that most of us have moral codes.

4. What started the evolution process or created the Big Bang?

I don't pretend to know what started evolution, and I don't pretend to know what caused the Big Bang, either. Want me to make something up for you?

5. Did everything come from nothing?

I don't pretend to know.

If so what evidence is there that this is even possible?

I think the best place to investigate that is to read Laurence Krauss's "A universe from nothing". It's all hypothetical, of course, but at least the math and quantum physics works. I don't take an unverified hypothesis as evidence, so, I would say that there is very LITTLE evidence that his hypothetical is even possible.

But there is SOME.
Krauss didn't invent all of math and physics.

So, I would say.. that I have no evidence that this is more than just hypothetically possible, given the current state of our knowledge about the universe at this time.

If not when what constant has existed forever and how can you give evidence of that?

I have no idea about what might have existed "forever".
And I have absolutely no evidence of it, even if I knew what you were talking about.

Now I assume your answer to most of these questions would be "i don't know" and this is likely the reason why theists don't ask you too many questions.

Unfortunately, those questions have nothing at all to do about my atheistic conclusion.
IF theists think I have formed my reasoning on ignorance are quite literally, asking the wrong questions.

If they really want to know my ACTUAL reasoning, I say : "They should ask".

As far as I know, I did not, nor do I ever engage in the argument from ignorance.

I can explain if you need me to.
Here is a good place to start:

Argument from Ignorance

There is not much point in seeking a answer to a question with someone who doesn't know

Then perhaps the theists should ask questions that DO reflect my actual thinking.

Sometimes, when we don't know the only HONEST answer is : Sorry, dude, I just don't know".


Would you like for me to pretend that I know what I really don't?

How about if they asked me to answer questions about what I DO claim to know, instead of what I don't?

I spend so much time in here in attack mode... it gets very trying. I'd like to be challenged for a change.


Would make for a fun change of pace for me, you see.