Fill er' up

[DanieltheDragon]

For debate:


What does being filled with the Holy Spirit mean to you?

Is Christianity unified in its meaning?

[Zzyzx]

.

It seems to be one of those things like wisdom. The bible promises that God will give it when asked. Funny how that when people ask for wisdom or the holy spirit they seem to be the same as they were before. No great metamorphosis of any kind. They are pretty much the same people with the same amount of wisdom and insight. The same fruits too.

Exactly. Well said.

WHY aren't those who claim to be 'Filled with the Spirit' truly / remarkably outstanding -- way above average?

The only 'filling' appears to be full of . . . belief (did you think I'd use a different word -- can't do that here). Fervent or fanatical belief seem to correlate to 'filling' -- but nothing else -- no great wisdom, knowledge, ability, or sterling personal characteristics.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 18 by OnceConvinced]

Of course it's a promise. Dear God please forgive me in the name of Jesus and bam the holy spirit will dwell in you.

I think a discussion on the Holy Spirit is overdue in general on this forum.

If the holy spirit is not achieving these things and Christians are not exhibiting the fruits, then why should anyone believe that the holy spirit is a real entity?

Basically God acts on permission not on power so I wouldn't expect the holy spirit to burn bright in a person who hasn't given it permission.

[Zzyzx]

.

Basically God acts on permission not on power

Is that a guess / opinion / conjecture or a statement of truth? If the latter, kindly substantiate.

so I wouldn't expect the holy spirit to burn bright in a person who hasn't given it permission.

If the 'Holy spirit burns bright' in people who HAVE given it permission, WHY doesn't their light shine with unmistakable brilliance? Where is their wisdom, knowledge, ability; where are their exemplary actions?

It appears as though a lot of 'average or dim bulbs' think that they are given special supernatural help -- but only register as average, if that.

[Clownboat]

For debate:


What does being filled with the Holy Spirit mean to you?

Is Christianity unified in its meaning?

For us it meant that we had the Holy Spirit in us and guiding us. Basically, call you inner voice/conscience the Holy Spirit and you're done.

It could also mean you were having a fit of the Holy Spirit, or as we liked to call it, 'drunk in the Holy Ghost'. These were common at summer camp events and such as well as during general service at times.

[Clownboat]

The Spirit is only in people in relationship with God.

Are you sure it is not just people who believe in god concepts that pretend to be in a relationship that say this sort of thing? After all, as far as I know, spirits are just make believe. Due to that, it seems as though many Christians are just saying they are in a relationship in order to bolster their own beliefs and in my case, I said it so I could claim to be in a relationship with a god instead of being part of a religion. I was special you see. Unfortunately, my relationship was entirely one sided (me pretending that I was worshiping a real god) and I ultimately lost my beliefs in part because for years my god just could not 'make himself real in my life'.

re·la·tion·ship
rəˈl�SH(ə)nˌSHip/
noun
the way in which two or more concepts, objects, or people are connected, or the state of being connected.

Can you explain this relationship with a god? I don't doubt that you have ways in which you are connected to a god, like worshiping it during temple time or calling your inner voice a spirit of said god, but in what way does this god have a relationship with you?

Have you ever seen it?
Have you ever heard this god?
My dog greets me at the door, does your god do anything of the sort so you know that your relationship is not just with an imaginary concept?

In what way does it connect with you and can this way it connects with you be observed, or is it just speculation on your part?

Can this relationship you have be verified in any way, or is it similar with the relationship I have with a yellow unicorn that guides my words that I type here on this forum?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

True Christians are indeed unified in their understanding of what holy spirit is, we believe it to be God's active force or power. The bible says God uses this power or force inmany different ways.

This is just arrogance in action it seems. I'm of course open to being shown that I'm wrong.
So please show that you are a 'True Christian' or kindly retract this nonsensical, unverifiable claim of religious make believe superiority.

Your god can be shown to be no more real then fairies. You literally might as well be claiming to be a 'True Fairyist. Thanks for a great example of how religions can be so divisive though. Even those that worship your same god are not allowed to be 'True Christians'.

Imagine a world without this mechanism for divisiveness.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 26 by Clownboat]

There would be no division if you would stop disagreeing with me!

Truth as someone one said sets us free its only divisive if people react badly to it and that cannot be helped without unacceptable compromise. So division is by necessity an effect of stating an opinion, which is not necessarily a bad or arrogant thing to do. There was once great division on whether the earth travelled round the sun or not ... would the world be a better place if the once minority had decided to keep quiet? Atheism is a minority view, expressing it in any way divides the individual from the majority. Are atheists therefore "divisive" by expressing what they believe to be true?

Anyway, I do believe the OP was asking for opinions, and I have given mine. You can take it or leave it, or imagine a world where everyone's opinion is the same as yours if that gives you comfort.

JW

[ttruscott]

imCo:

If the 'Holy spirit burns bright' in people who HAVE given it permission, WHY doesn't their light shine with unmistakable brilliance? Where is their wisdom, knowledge, ability; where are their exemplary actions?

Nothing is so true it can't be denied, Nothing is so holy it cannot be desecrated. If they can ignore, accuse and desecrate Jesus, it is for their blindness, not His lack. Our light is indeed dimmed by sin but even though we are less than Christ, it is not proof that there is no Holy Spirit.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 26 by Clownboat]

There would be no division if you would stop disagreeing with me!

Truth as someone one said sets us free its only divisive if people react badly to it and that cannot be helped without unacceptable compromise. So division is by necessity an effect of stating an opinion, which is not necessarily a bad or arrogant thing to do. There was once great division on whether the earth travelled round the sun or not ... would the world be a better place if the once minority had decided to keep quiet? Atheism is a minority view, expressing it in any way divides the individual from the majority.


Anyway, I do believe the OP was asking for opinions, and I have given mine. You can take it or leave it, or imagine a world where everyone's opinion is the same as yours if that gives you comfort.

JW

As I said readers... arrogance in action. Jehovahs Witness was not able to show any of us that he is an actual 'True Christian' as he claimed he was.

He is not able to evidence his nonsensical, unverifiable claim of religious make believe superiority by claiming to be a 'True Christian', which by default would make most other Christians not 'True Christians'.

I point out how even within his own religion, how religious beliefs create divisions that would not be there if not for the religion and tries to compare that fact with having opinions. I trust this is not lost on you all.

I have opinions about pizza that many of you might not share, but that is not a mechanism that would cause division, unlike how one denomination of a religion telling others that they are not 'True' is. And that's just the internal division that religions cause. We haven't even brought other religions into the mix yet.

I would also like to point out that he made a claim, not an opinion.

Then we have strange statements like: "Are atheists therefore "divisive" by expressing what they believe to be true?"
I would like to know one thing an atheist believes to be true. Lacking a belief in the gods does not cause any belief that I'm aware of. What am I missing? What is he alluding to? Is he trying to claim that lacking a believe in the gods is divisive like religions are?

[OnceConvinced]

Basically God acts on permission not on power so I wouldn't expect the holy spirit to burn bright in a person who hasn't given it permission.

As far as I can see everyone who has ever asked for the holy spirit (including myself) has given God permission simply because they have asked and because they want it. Still it doesn't seem to make any obvious difference.

If asking God for the filling of the holy spirit is not giving him permission then what is?