"The whole Bible is about Jesus"...

[Elijah John]

It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".

For debate:

1) Is this so, and if so, where is Jesus in the Old Testament? Which passages exactly?

2) And if specific passages are cited, how are these passages specifically referring to Jesus, or even the Messiah? And how is this the only reasonable interpretation of those verses?

3) If the "Old" Testament (Hebrew Bible) is really all about Jesus, why do you suppose that the vast majority of Jews don't see him there?

Please address any combination of the above.

[Elijah John]

In that "profile" is there any indication the Messiah would need to appear twice in order to usher in the Messianic age, or establish the Kingdom of God on earth?

Ok well, now that you have clarified that my answer is now as follows:

Yes, there is in that "profile" indication that the Messiah would need to appear twice in order to usher in the Messianic age, or establish the Kingdom of God on earth. There is the indication that the Messiah would die in disgrace and also of him ruling in an everlasting kingdom, the only way the two statements can prove true would be more than one manifestation (compare Isaiah 53: 3-9; Psalms 89:36, 37)

Thank you. Of course there is nothing in the OT Hebrew Bible that explicitly states the Messiah would need to arrive twice to get the job done.

Yes, there are passages apologists point to that seem to suggest the Messiah will be both a "suffering servant" and a triumphant King. But those two divergent identities are never in the same passage..(unless I missed it).

One way to resolve the two divergent ideas is to say "well, that must mean that the Messiah will have a 2nd coming". That is the solution of Christian apologists for these past two milennia.

Another way, (and this is the Jewish way) is to argue that Isaiah 53 was never meant to be taken to be taken as a Messianic prophecy at all, that the Messiah was meant to be triumphant from the get go, usher in the Messianic age (what JWs and others call the "Kingdom of God") and set Israel above the Nations. And the Messiah is supposed to do this the first and only time around.

I know which explanation Christian's accept, but which solution makes more sense? Which is more direct? And by contrast, which requires the invention of yet another doctrine to make the first one seem true?

[JehovahsWitness]

I know which explanation Christian's accept, but which solution makes more sense?

I'm a little confused, do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you believe Jesus was the promised Messiah? If so, why?

JW

[Elijah John]

I know which explanation Christian's accept, but which solution makes more sense?

I'm a little confused, do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you believe Jesus was the promised Messiah? If so, why?

JW

Fair question, and the confusion is understandable. I ask myself that question sometimes too. Christianity, is my religious inheritance. I was raised Catholic and still see the RCC as a force for good in the world, in spite of my theological differences with the Church, and in spite of some of it's human failings.

I consider myself a Christian because I see Jesus as my Rabbi. I like his interpretation of Judaism, and find myself siding with him on most of the controversies he had with the Temple, the Pharisees and the Saducees. (the Sabbath was made for man, not vice versa, his stand against ritual purity divisions in favor of compassion,