Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

[Justin108]

They now insist that Jesus did return but he is invisible.

If so, how would they know he has returned?

If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14) and we believe it started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/


JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?

2. Was 1914 unique in this regard? For example, Luke 21 mentions "wars and uprisings". In what way is 1914 unique in terms of wars and uprisings?

3. According to (my understanding of) Jehovah's Witnesses' claims, Jesus' rule from 1914 is hidden and behind the scenes. His rule is invisible to most of us. Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from the start? Or did they initially believe that Jesus' rule will be clearly apparent to everyone, and only after 1914 when no Jesus was to be found did they change their conclusion to "well Jesus must be doing it in heaven where no one can see"?

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914? Or do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

As to what you have said here (No one is the Messiah unless the Jews say he is)... that isn't true, because it is God who says who is the Messiah; but even so, all the earliest disciples and/or Christians were Jews who did accept and proclaim Jaheshua as the Messiah.

Peace again to you.

How do you know what "all the earliest disciples and/or Christians" accepted? Can you provide evidence of what they all believed and or accepted?


Tcg

It is just in the definition of the word. A disciple is a student/follower of someone. In this case, a disciple of Christ is a student/follower of Christ. If someone did not listen to/follow/believe Him... then that person is not a disciple (of Christ).

I will add though that some followed Him at the start, but did not truly believe in Him... because they left Him when His teachings became too hard for them to accept (the teaching about eating and drinking His flesh and blood).

But all the earliest Christians (who did accept and proclaim Him as the Messiah) were Jews (and Samaritans, and later, non-Israelite Gentiles).


Peace to you.

This doesn't address my question. You've provided no evidence that your claim of Jesus' or Jasheptah or whatever other name one could invent was accepted by all early Christians. Note the emphasis on all.


Tcg

Because that is part of what it means to be Christian. If you did not accept Jaheshua as the Christ, then how would you even BE Christian?

(It doesn't even make sense -to me- that a Jewish person would have 'faked' it, since Jews were being persecuted and put out of the synagogues for accepting Him as the Messiah.)


Peace again.

[Tcg]

Because that is part of what it means to be Christian. If you did not accept Jaheshua as the Christ, then how would you even BE Christian?

(It doesn't even make sense -to me- that a Jewish person would have 'faked' it, since Jews were being persecuted and put out of the synagogues for accepting Him as the Messiah.)


Peace again.

You haven't provided support for your claim. You claimed to know what all early Christians believed and continue to not provide evidence to support your claim. Let's start here, name all the early Christians and what they each believed. Once again, note the emphasis on all.


Tcg

[tam]

Peace to you,

Because that is part of what it means to be Christian. If you did not accept Jaheshua as the Christ, then how would you even BE Christian?

(It doesn't even make sense -to me- that a Jewish person would have 'faked' it, since Jews were being persecuted and put out of the synagogues for accepting Him as the Messiah.)


Peace again.

You haven't provided support for your claim. You claimed to know what all early Christians believed and continue to not provide evidence to support your claim. Let's start here, name all the early Christians and what they each believed. Once again, note the emphasis on all.


Tcg

Yes, I get your emphasis on all. I don't think you are getting what I am saying (or perhaps you don't accept it): You cannot be Christian without Christ. It means Anointed One (or Chosen One; Messiah).


Peace again to you.

[Avoice]

[Replying to tam in post #97]

THE CHURCH STRIKES AGAIN!

It's amazing how the "proof" Christians provide are based on lies, mistranslations and general deception. They just don't don't realize it.

But had the church not deceived people by manipulation the God's message to man no one would be tossing money in the collection plate.
Funny how the church has to deceive people for their truth to be true.

It does NOT SAY "...take hold of the robe of a Jew...". I like how you underlined A JEW. In the original Hebrew it is plural . As to say they who are Jews. It's not talking about one Jew. But, the church wanted everyone to think it's talking about Jesus.
Look....you can go on believing what you want. But the reason why you believe aren't based on truth. Don't take my word for it...look it up for yourself.
Now before today you were innocent of this theological crime against God. I know you love God or you wouldn't be here. Since that is the case then see that everyone else hears the truth.

It's not what you knew or didn't know. It's what you did or didn't do when you found out.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Avoice in post #104]

Most of the time it is translated singular in that verse. The word itself seems like it could be translated as singular or plural.

The JPS Tanakh:

Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'


Young's Literal Translation:

In those days take hold do ten men of all languages of the nations, Yea, they have taken hold on the skirt of a man, a Jew, saying: We go with you, for we heard God is with you!

https://biblehub.com/zechariah/8-23.htm

From chabad.org:

In those days, when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cd ... pter-8.htm


Translation is not a perfect science, and there are errors in the OT as well as in the NT.


Peace again to you.

[otseng]

You don't know what established truth. Unbelievable!! You have no idea how to judge what is true. OMG...you really don't

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