Mormonism is NOT Chistian

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doctrinematters
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Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #1

Post by doctrinematters »

Mormonism is built upon the foundation of Joseph Smith's claim, which had no witnesses, that God and Jesus appeared to him and told him when he was age 14, 15, or 16, that all Christian Creeds were an abomination and that those who believe them were all corrupt:


Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):

“My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.�
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'�

Mormons have always cast aspersions on orthodox Christianity:

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Joseph Smith–History, v. 1, pp. 8–26

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

The Second supposed prophet of the Mormon system, agreed:


Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):

“He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.�

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God"

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171

“...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthood—without the power of God—without the Church and Kingdom of God.�

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44

Today's Mormons embrace the title "Christian," and want acceptance by Christians:

LDS.org: "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ."

However, they don't and won't tell you (unless you dig it out of their archives) that the "god" they call "the father," is an appointed god, grew up on another planet as a human being, and was "exalted" to his position of the god ruling over planet earth. This was taught by Joseph Smith, see Smith's King Follett Discourse and http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm

The "jesus" of Mormonism has nothing to do with the Christian/Biblical Jesus, as we can learn here: http://www.searchingthescriptures.net/m ... _jesus.htm

According to the Mormons, their jesus was simply the first spirit baby born to polygamous deities ruling planet earth. Satan was the second, thus making Jesus and Satan spirit brothers. Romney tried to weasel around this doctrine when he was running for President, but the evidence is overwhelming. Mormon jesus is simply a brother to all other spirits which make up humanity and angels, and demons. Mormon jesus atoned for sins in Gethsemane, and although he shed his blood to establish the New Covenant, Joseph Smith's blood was added to his in order to "restore" the New Covenant:

Ensign June 1994: " Like his Master, Joseph Smith also shed his blood in order that the final testament, the reestablishment of the new covenant, might be in full effect"

Christians, think of the evil in that remark!

While today's Mormons attempt to elicit the support of Christians, and pretend that they are Christians (this helps their missionaries who go door to door), they will never mention what I have just posted here. I have only posted their own words and statements. If there is a Mormon who is "moderating" on this forum, I wonder what they would say about this?

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a deceptive religion

Post #2

Post by Overcomer »

You're right. Mormonism is a deceptive religion built on untruths. Mormons use the same terminology that Christians use, but they mean entirely different things by them. So they mislead people who know nothing about the real Jesus Christ or what the Bible really says.

It's scary for a Mormon to leave the religion because he/she would be ostracized from friends and family if he/she did so.

Bill McKeever is a Christian who lives in Utah. He's an expert on Mormonism and operates a good web site with lots of information for those who don't know much about the religion. It's here:

http://www.mrm.org/

When it comes to Bible verses, I think of these two when I consider Mormonism:

Matthew 7:21-23 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to post 1 by doctrinematters]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.

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Re: a deceptive religion

Post #4

Post by Tcg »

Overcomer wrote: You're right. Mormonism is a deceptive religion built on untruths.
You'd have to provide evidence that some religions are built on truth for this to be a valid reason to distinguish between them. What have you got?
It's scary for a Mormon to leave the religion because he/she would be ostracized from friends and family if he/she did so.
Once again, you'd have to provide evidence that this is different from any other religion and then of course provide evidence that it somehow is a determination factor between true and false religions. What have you got?
Matthew 7:21-23 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!
If there were any reason to consider this authoritative in any way, it could just as easily be applied to your version of religion than any other. For a third time, evidence is needed here to back you're claim. What evidence can you present that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are being referred to here?

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #5

Post by ttruscott »

doctrinematters wrote: Mormonism is built upon the foundation of Joseph Smith's claim, which had no witnesses, that God and Jesus appeared to him and told him when he was age 14, 15, or 16, that all Christian Creeds were an abomination and that those who believe them were all corrupt:
I am not a Mormon but I do not think you have proven it is Satanic here in this paragraph...

Who witnessed Paul's conversion? And did he not set himself against all other gospel interpretations but what he preached? How is that different from Mr. Smith.
Mormons have always cast aspersions on orthodox Christianity:
And Protestant against Catholics and vice versa and West Catholics against East Catholics and vice versa and Calvinists against Lutherans and vice versa etc etc...You have said nothing so far.
LDS.org: "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ."
Ummm, so do I?
However, they don't and won't tell you (unless you dig it out of their archives) that the "god" they call "the father," is an appointed god, grew up on another planet as a human being, and was "exalted" to his position of the god ruling over planet earth. This was taught by Joseph Smith, see Smith's King Follett Discourse and http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm
Finally we are getting somewhere... This claim is a serous claim that looks like a watershed claim, that is, the farther you follow it, the farther from the other side you get. Every Christian should take a serious look at this theology and know WHY they reject it if they do.
According to the Mormons, their jesus was simply the first spirit baby born to polygamous deities ruling planet earth. Satan was the second, thus making Jesus and Satan spirit brothers. Romney tried to weasel around this doctrine when he was running for President, but the evidence is overwhelming. Mormon jesus is simply a brother to all other spirits which make up humanity and angels, and demons. Mormon jesus atoned for sins in Gethsemane, and although he shed his blood to establish the New Covenant,
...sounds to me like every other non-Trinity theology extant and still nothing new.
Joseph Smith's blood was added to his in order to "restore" the New Covenant:

Ensign June 1994: " Like his Master, Joseph Smith also shed his blood in order that the final testament, the reestablishment of the new covenant, might be in full effect"

Ahhhh, real meat. I agree that there is nothing needed to be added to Christ's work and all religions who have sprung up so their theology or their Messiah could 'fulfil' what Jesus failed to do or to correct His errors are anathema to me.

HIS work is finished once for all. He has prophets who explain His reality and His work but there is no need for anyone to "reestablish the new covenant, so it might be in full effect!" What man can improve upon the work of GOD?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #6

Post by dianaiad »

I've been busy, and so missed this entire thread. Well, better late than never, I suppose:
doctrinematters wrote:Mormonism is built upon the foundation of Joseph Smith's claim, which had no witnesses,
Well, that's fairly typical, Moses had no witnesses with the 'burning bush,' and most of the OT prophets were 'witnessless.' So were many of the NT revelations, come to think of it. Indeed, Paul claims that he had many revelations, but mentions no witnesses for any of 'em but the very first one.
doctrinematters wrote:that God and Jesus appeared to him and told him when he was age 14, 15, or 16, that all Christian Creeds were an abomination and that those who believe them were all corrupt:


Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):

“My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.�
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.'�
Yep, that's what he said. Mind you, we Mormons are of the opinion that 'professors' meant more 'leaders and teachers' rather than 'all believers,' but hey; people pick and choose definitions that support their own already reached conclusions. You MIGHT consider that JS's actions after that generally confirm our opinion rather than yours, but you think what you want.
doctrinematters wrote:Well, Mormons have always cast aspersions on orthodox Christianity:
...snip just to save space, acknowledging that you included several quotes from JS and BY...

Without commenting on the sources of your quotes, I would like to point out that both of these men have been dead for over a century. Joseph Smith has been dead for nearly two centuries (less 24 years), and BY for nearly a century and a half (less 9 years). Would you care to explain how a few quotes from these two men that long ago equates to 'always?"

I have an idea. You go find some evidence that Latter-day saints spend their time 'always cast[ing] aspersions on orthodox Christianity." I don't think that a few quotes centuries old quite do the job. However, if you are determined, I'll admit 'aspersions' within the last, oh....fifty years.

...................and in return I will take the same time frame and list a bunch (listing all of 'em would swamp the forum) of attacks BY 'orthodox' Christianity against Mormonism that makes anything that JS or BY said look like unadulterated praise in comparison. I might even begin with your post, here.

In other words, I am not impressed by your claim.
doctrinematters wrote:Today's Mormons embrace the title "Christian," and want acceptance by Christians:
That's because we ARE Christians. We aren't Baptists. We aren't Lutherans. We aren't Presbyterians or Catholics. We aren't Calvinists or Trinitarians. We are, however, Christians, because we put the teachings of Jesus Christ at the center of our belief system (actually, we put HIM there) and because we claim to be so.

That doesn't make us 'saved,' or 'right,'...if "Christian meant either 'saved' OR 'right," then we would be the Christians and you wouldn't.

However, "Christian' is a classification of belief system, not a declaration of salvation.
doctrinematters wrote:Ensign June 1994: " Like his Master, Joseph Smith also shed his blood in order that the final testament, the reestablishment of the new covenant, might be in full effect"

Christians, think of the evil in that remark!
.....and you don't refer to the 'blood of the martyrs?" C'mon.
doctrinematters wrote:While today's Mormons attempt to elicit the support of Christians, and pretend that they are Christians (this helps their missionaries who go door to door), they will never mention what I have just posted here.
Well, of course not. That's because you have erected a strawman version of Mormonism to attack. Why should the missionaries defend...or mention...stuff they don't believe?
doctrinematters wrote:I have only posted their own words and statements. If there is a Mormon who is "moderating" on this forum, I wonder what they would say about this?
Well, now you know. Sorry for the delay, but as I said, I have been busy.

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #7

Post by dianaiad »

Tcg wrote: [Replying to post 1 by doctrinematters]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.
Y'know, I hit the 'like' button on this post, but on second thought, I think that it needs something more. You have stated, most succinctly, the essence of the difference between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity in three sentences. I love it. It's the perfect description as seen by someone 'outside the fray,' so to speak.

Mind you, the MORMONS would claim that the real difference is the priesthood; we have it, modern mainstream Christianity doesn't. That's why and how we can 'add stuff." They, on the other hand, (except for the Catholics who claim that THEY have it) claim that it isn't required or that all Christians have it, and there was to be no more revelation after the death of Jesus (which makes no sense, if you think about when the NT was written, but never mind logic).

But never mind the details. You nailed it. ;)

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #8

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

You dont think it absurd that the stuff you added pretends to sound like the KJV? Surely the hoax is clear now?
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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #9

Post by ttruscott »

Tcg wrote: [Replying to post 1 by doctrinematters]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.

You are near sighted...what they seem to have added is that all of orthodox Christianity is lies...not a "simple" addition at all.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Mormonism is NOT Chistian

Post #10

Post by dianaiad »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 7 by dianaiad]

You dont think it absurd that the stuff you added pretends to sound like the KJV? Surely the hoax is clear now?
Wootah, my dear friend, if I thought it was a hoax, I wouldn't BE a Mormon. Yes, the BoM is written...and sounds to the ear very like...the KJV.

Now tell me: just for the sake of argument, you are a young man (a very young man, as it happens) and you have been given these plates and told to translate them. Yes, you have divine aid, but YOU have to write down the words. You are a product of your time, and scripture sounds like....well...the KJV.

So that's how you word things.

Now I might think you would have a really good point if the Doctrine and Covenants sounded like the KJV, but it doesn't.

I understand why someone who is already inclined to dismiss Mormonism as untrue and downright weird to see a problem, though.

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