Made In The Image Of GOD

[William]

Many individuals seem confused as to how GOD should be accurately defined. The confusion stems from the Abrahamic organized religion's many and varied sects which don't altogether agree on the definition, or terminology of definitions.

This has evolved, at least in regards to Christianity, as an image of male being upon a throne, situated somewhere in the sky of whom we are all 'made in the image of' but many think that this imagery is more about something being made in the image of man, and some aspects of Christianity agree that the imagery is false, or metaphorical at best, because "GOD is Spirit" and as such, does not even have gender, let alone form.

However, this stance often seems to contradict other ideas strongly held by Christians, including referring to the GOD as 'He' as well as Jesus being 'The Christ' and male and sitting on a throne as a representative of their idea of GOD - in form.

Furthermore, the idea of human beings being 'made in the image of GOD' helps fortify the imagery of GOD having a human form, contradicting the idea that 'GOD is Spirit', something else which really requires suitable defining.

Made In The Image Of GOD

Q: What exactly must that mean?

[William]

[Replying to post 40 by jeremiah1five]

Hello William.

Hi Jeremiah

God created man/Adam sin-ful, or as the word is defined by Strong as "missing the mark" (think Archery).

Well not a lot of Christians hold to that particular doctrine. GOD created humans as sinful - as unable to 'hit the mark' as it were. This places 'sin' in the same category as 'ignorance'. Created ignorant.

In relation to the OP blurb, the form is what was created and the breath of GOD is what made the form alive. Thus the form is an instrument purpose-designed to allow for ignorance.

But man/Adam was not "made in the image of God."

However, of course, the bible says otherwise and that is what the OP is investigating.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every of creature that crawls upon it.�

"Christ" is the English translation from the Greek "Christos" transliterated from the Hebrew "Messias" which means "Anointed."

The Prophecy of Messiah was made in Genesis 3:15 -

Genesis 3:15 (KJV)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


To the Hebrew mind this Prophecy describes the Promised One - Messiah - would be born both God and man.

Generally the 'Hebrew mind" does not think of Jesus as the Messiah.

One is left wondering as to what the fuss is all about since GOD created human forms to be naturally enough sinful. It seems to me that the whole experiment was to place GOD-consciousness (the image of GOD) into the sinful forms, and deal with the aftereffects of this by setting up ways and means for that consciousness to eventually reintegrate with that which it derived from - changed through the experience but in essence still the same.

This thread was created as a branch from another thread titled "Jesus' Return" which questions the imagery surrounding that hoped for event. Perhaps it might interest you to read it and offer your perspective on that as well.

Thanks

[jeremiah1five]

[Replying to post 40 by jeremiah1five]

Hello William.

Hi Jeremiah

God created man/Adam sin-ful, or as the word is defined by Strong as "missing the mark" (think Archery).

Well not a lot of Christians hold to that particular doctrine. GOD created humans as sinful - as unable to 'hit the mark' as it were. This places 'sin' in the same category as 'ignorance'. Created ignorant.

In relation to the OP blurb, the form is what was created and the breath of GOD is what made the form alive. Thus the form is an instrument purpose-designed to allow for ignorance.

I hope I'm doing these 'quotes' correctly.
Warm welcome. Thanks, William.
If I may...I prefer if others spell my user with a lower-case "j."
There is only one man in Scripture that gets the capital "J" and that is the prophet Jeremiah. Thanks.

I see your "ignorant" remark. Never considered this issue with that word before. I can accept it as descriptive of Adam's state of mind not his nature. I would also have to look at that word in context to two things: 1. Adam was created as a baby (not adult) and grew in TIME to the point of aged enough in God's Wisdom to teach him he is sin-ful, or NOT God; 2. Adam was created as an adult, in which case he escaped teething , but still God needed to teach him of his sin-fulness. which was what that was about.
That is all the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil was used for. It was a regular tree of God's Garden, Eden. My surmising is that hanging around God (the Glory of God) with not instruction of their great differences is that Adam may have just considered himself on par with God until the test of the Tree.

The creation of Adam was that he was formed from the dust/clay/dirt of the ground and was earthy:

1 Corinthians 15:47-49 The first man is of the earth, earthy: The second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they that are earthy, and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, wee shall also bare the image of the heavenly.

Adam did not possess the 'image of God,' Christ did - and we shall, also - we are as born of God Christians will be and are being conformed into the image of Christ (which is spiritual) and since Christ is the "image of God" so, we, too will bear the image of the heavenly, not the earthy. There is no better image of a Father than a Son. Thus, God looked forward to the New Man in Christ when He declared and ordained that His people - a people He contemplated as saved in His Mind in Trinity BEFORE He created the universe containing (1st & 2nd) heaven, earth, and man.
I believe the dust/clay/dirt was formed and have the shape we have physically - and since we are a by-product of creation (created out of something as opposed to the earth created out of nothing) we cannot be holy, or sinless, or 'neutral' for there is only One God and One kingdom and there is no such thing as the Kingdom of Neutrality.

The breath God blew into the nostrils of Adam ONLY animated him - not make him holy or righteous, or sinless - three Deific Attributes of God.
God also blew into the LOINS of the first man, Adam, His Elect which through the natural process of childbirth will be born at the appointed TIME, and born-again at the appointed TIME. All God is doing in TIME is preparing bodies to go with those names in the book of life of the lamb slain.... (Rev. 13:8).

But man/Adam was not "made in the image of God."

However, of course, the bible says otherwise and that is what the OP is investigating.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every of creature that crawls upon it.�

As above, the image of God is not Adam, it is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son, and we are being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam (1 Cor. 15:47-49).

"Christ" is the English translation from the Greek "Christos" transliterated from the Hebrew "Messias" which means "Anointed."

The Prophecy of Messiah was made in Genesis 3:15 -

Genesis 3:15 (KJV)
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


To the Hebrew mind this Prophecy describes the Promised One - Messiah - would be born both God and man.

Generally the 'Hebrew mind" does not think of Jesus as the Messiah.

One is left wondering as to what the fuss is all about since GOD created human forms to be naturally enough sinful. It seems to me that the whole experiment was to place GOD-consciousness (the image of GOD) into the sinful forms, and deal with the aftereffects of this by setting up ways and means for that consciousness to eventually reintegrate with that which it derived from - changed through the experience but in essence still the same.

The Hebrew mind at the First Advent of Jesus was blinded by God as He is doing at this present TIME in human history in this present Church Age ("calling out [one's].")


This thread was created as a branch from another thread titled "Jesus' Return" which questions the imagery surrounding that hoped for event. Perhaps it might interest you to read it and offer your perspective on that as well.

Thanks

[JehovahsWitness]

You made claims, I challenged those claims.

The only claim I make is that I claim to believe what I said about the expression "in God's image". Are you suggesting I don't believe what I said?

This is the fraud we have to put up with from so many Christians who enter into these 'debates'.

If you believe that the content of any of my posts violate site guidelines feel free to report it (for "fraud" or whatever offense you seefit). I shared my personal faith based opinion. I was not under the impression anyone is obliged to "prove" a belief or prove what religion they belong to for that matter.

As you declare yourself one of "Jehovah's witnesses", I challenge you to show you speak truth in that regard.

I do indeed declare to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I did not however declare that I would respond to every post directed at me. I presented what I believe the expression "in God's image" means as per the OP and presented the rationale therein for my belief.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 778#936778


Feel free to address the points or ignore them for what they are, opinion.


JW

[William]

[Replying to post 42 by jeremiah1five]

I hope I'm doing these 'quotes' correctly.

Sadly your hope did not manifest into reality jeremiah.

Never considered this issue with that word before. I can accept it as descriptive of Adam's state of mind not his nature.

Yes. My point being that the human body was created for the purpose of ensuring that the consciousness which inhabited it would be ignorant of its origins.

Indeed, it appears that the illusion is so strong that humans self identify as being the body , rather than the consciousness breathed into the body - and create myths which reflect this idea.

My surmising is that hanging around God (the Glory of God) with not instruction of their great differences is that Adam may have just considered himself on par with God until the test of the Tree.

Unlikely, given the story goes that the GOD was a 'voice' in the garden and Adam was a 'voice' in a physical body. Essentially the GOD was the Garden, from Adam's perspective, and also the GOD instructed Adam.

The creation of Adam was that he was formed from the dust/clay/dirt of the ground and was earthy:

Such are the shaping of myths by those who self identify as the human form.

Adam did not possess the 'image of God,' Christ did - and we shall, also

One does not 'possess' the image of God. One IS the image of God. One just has to come to the realization of this.

Exceptionally hard to achieve if one is basing their faith on theologies which teach otherwise.

I believe the dust/clay/dirt was formed and have the shape we have physically - and since we are a by-product of creation (created out of something as opposed to the earth created out of nothing) we cannot be holy, or sinless, or 'neutral' for there is only One God and One kingdom and there is no such thing as the Kingdom of Neutrality.

This idea that one is 'created' is problematic. The idea that the earth (and this universe) were created 'out of nothing' has no merit. It and all things created, are created within The Mind of GOD. The Mind of GOD is hardly 'nothing'.

I remain unconvinced that the Christian idea of GOD - or for that matter, the Abrahamic idea of GOD - is correct and worthwhile supporting. It is based too much on suppositions which derive from human beings who believe that they are the forms which they occupy. This allows for the idea of disparity to take hold and to shape human society towards those ends, and thus the idea of kings on thrones ruling the unworthy - the non-equal.

Once individual learns to see themselves as spirit (consciousness) rather than the flesh, such misconceptions fade back into the darkness in which they came from and are no longer useful tools of manipulation for those who preach otherwise.

The breath God blew into the nostrils of Adam ONLY animated him - not make him holy or righteous, or sinless - three Deific Attributes of God.

The form cannot be made holy or unholy, righteous or unrighteous, etc...it is simply a dead thing made alive because of the Breath of GOD.
It is the ignorance which naturally enough comes through this process which allows for these products of ignorance to manifest and take hold.

In essence it is clear evidence that GOD-Consciousness can indeed be made unholy and unrighteous and sinful if the container it is placed within is designed to accomplish this but it is also evident that those who understand their selves as aspects of GOD consciousness (The breath) can reintegrate with that knowledge and express themselves into the external world accordingly.

As above, the image of God is not Adam, it is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son, and we are being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam.

That is really what I am talking about. We are conforming to the idea of being aspects of GOD Consciousness (The Christ) and self identifying with that, rather than continuing down the path of self identifying with the flesh (Adam) and remaining ignorant of our true nature.

This thread was created as a branch from another thread titled "Jesus' Return" which questions the imagery surrounding that hoped for event. Perhaps it might interest you to read it and offer your perspective on that as well.

[jeremiah1five]

[Replying to post 42 by jeremiah1five]

I hope I'm doing these 'quotes' correctly.

Sadly your hope did not manifest into reality jeremiah.

Never considered this issue with that word before. I can accept it as descriptive of Adam's state of mind not his nature.

Yes. My point being that the human body was created for the purpose of ensuring that the consciousness which inhabited it would be ignorant of its origins.

Indeed, it appears that the illusion is so strong that humans self identify as being the body , rather than the consciousness breathed into the body - and create myths which reflect this idea.

My surmising is that hanging around God (the Glory of God) with not instruction of their great differences is that Adam may have just considered himself on par with God until the test of the Tree.

Unlikely, given the story goes that the GOD was a 'voice' in the garden and Adam was a 'voice' in a physical body. Essentially the GOD was the Garden, from Adam's perspective, and also the GOD instructed Adam.

The creation of Adam was that he was formed from the dust/clay/dirt of the ground and was earthy:

Such are the shaping of myths by those who self identify as the human form.

Adam did not possess the 'image of God,' Christ did - and we shall, also

One does not 'possess' the image of God. One IS the image of God. One just has to come to the realization of this.

Exceptionally hard to achieve if one is basing their faith on theologies which teach otherwise.

I believe the dust/clay/dirt was formed and have the shape we have physically - and since we are a by-product of creation (created out of something as opposed to the earth created out of nothing) we cannot be holy, or sinless, or 'neutral' for there is only One God and One kingdom and there is no such thing as the Kingdom of Neutrality.

This idea that one is 'created' is problematic. The idea that the earth (and this universe) were created 'out of nothing' has no merit. It and all things created, are created within The Mind of GOD. The Mind of GOD is hardly 'nothing'.

I remain unconvinced that the Christian idea of GOD - or for that matter, the Abrahamic idea of GOD - is correct and worthwhile supporting. It is based too much on suppositions which derive from human beings who believe that they are the forms which they occupy. This allows for the idea of disparity to take hold and to shape human society towards those ends, and thus the idea of kings on thrones ruling the unworthy - the non-equal.

Once individual learns to see themselves as spirit (consciousness) rather than the flesh, such misconceptions fade back into the darkness in which they came from and are no longer useful tools of manipulation for those who preach otherwise.

The breath God blew into the nostrils of Adam ONLY animated him - not make him holy or righteous, or sinless - three Deific Attributes of God.

The form cannot be made holy or unholy, righteous or unrighteous, etc...it is simply a dead thing made alive because of the Breath of GOD.
It is the ignorance which naturally enough comes through this process which allows for these products of ignorance to manifest and take hold.

In essence it is clear evidence that GOD-Consciousness can indeed be made unholy and unrighteous and sinful if the container it is placed within is designed to accomplish this but it is also evident that those who understand their selves as aspects of GOD consciousness (The breath) can reintegrate with that knowledge and express themselves into the external world accordingly.

As above, the image of God is not Adam, it is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son, and we are being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam.

That is really what I am talking about. We are conforming to the idea of being aspects of GOD Consciousness (The Christ) and self identifying with that, rather than continuing down the path of self identifying with the flesh (Adam) and remaining ignorant of our true nature.

This thread was created as a branch from another thread titled "Jesus' Return" which questions the imagery surrounding that hoped for event. Perhaps it might interest you to read it and offer your perspective on that as well.

These [/quote]-functions. Confusing.

I see it as follows...

We, the Elect, were contemplated as saved individuals in the Mind of God in Trinity.

This is where God's 'fore-knowledge' takes place.

He wrote down names of those individuals He was to give life to - and eternal life -but God doesn't use books. The 'book of life' is metaphor for Christ. We were 'written in' Christ and these are the people God gave the Son and these are the people Christ cried from the cross to His God to forgive...,"Father, forgive THEM for they know not what they do..."

God created man on a created planet in a created universe and BLEW US (His Elect) into the nostrils of the man/Adam and set us in his loins awaiting to be born at the appointed TIME and born-again at the appointed TIME.

A reading of John 17 reveals the two groups of people: "them" and "the world" and who was receiving of God's grace in the form of the High Priest (Jesus) who is doing what a high priest does for the people of God: prays for the people of God in Covenant, and offer sacrifices for the people of God in Covenant:

John 17:9 (KJV)
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

The "world" of those not named in the book of life of the lamb slain...got nothing coming to them of God. Jesus doesn't even pray for the world at a time when the high priest should have prayed IF GOD was extending His grace to this people the world.

But He doesn't. Thus, the "world" and those NOT Named in the book of life of the lamb slain...are prasyer-less, and in accordance to other truths of the Bible, love-less. If God loves you God will save you.
If God doesn't love you God will not save you.
That's about it.

[William]

[Replying to post 45 by jeremiah1five]

I see it as follows...

We, the Elect,...
...If God loves you God will save you.
If God doesn't love you God will not save you.
That's about it.

Elitism.

The main problem I see with this type of theology is that it needn't have been published or even made known to the 'unworthy' and massive institutions created, not to mention all the riches pouring into the coffers of those at the helm peddling such stories into a best selling volume. Narcissists simply need to be noticed, and being noticed as a cut above all the rest is even more essential.

It can be no surprise to see that plainly their GOD and their religion are made precisely in their own image.

[jeremiah1five]

[Replying to post 45 by jeremiah1five]

I see it as follows...

We, the Elect,...
...If God loves you God will save you.
If God doesn't love you God will not save you.
That's about it.

Elitism.

The main problem I see with this type of theology is that it needn't have been published or even made known to the 'unworthy' and massive institutions created, not to mention all the riches pouring into the coffers of those at the helm peddling such stories into a best selling volume. Narcissists simply need to be noticed, and being noticed as a cut above all the rest is even more essential.

It can be no surprise to see that plainly their GOD and their religion are made precisely in their own image.

Just saying the same thing as my Father. To do otherwise is to oppose Him.

After all, God IS a respecter of persons.

Everyone in the Bible who had a positive relationship with God was CALLED.

There was no "accept this lamb the high priest just slain into your heart and you will be saved."

No.

The high priest sprinkled the blood on the Covenant people (Israel) there to receive their yearly atonement.

[William]

[Replying to post 47 by jeremiah1five]

Just saying the same thing as my Father.

Yes Yes.

"Made in the image of" something which was made in the image of those who created it and positioned it as a GOD, in the minds of the adherents who recognized themselves therein the imagery, and idolized such.

You have made your position clear. Like attracts like.

[jeremiah1five]

[Replying to post 47 by jeremiah1five]

Just saying the same thing as my Father.

Yes Yes.

"Made in the image of" something which was made in the image of those who created it and positioned it as a GOD, in the minds of the adherents who recognized themselves therein the imagery, and idolized such.

You have made your position clear. Like attracts like.

You got the wrong guy.

I am not that guy.

From Scripture all true-born of God believers are being conformed into the image of Christ.

Me. The person. The inside.

Not the body. I'll have the same body but it will be changed in the twinkle-twinkle of an eye and this mortality puts on immortality.

As the Scripture says.

[JoeyKnothead]

From:Post 43:

The only claim I make is that I claim to believe what I said about the expression "in God's image". Are you suggesting I don't believe what I said? 

You made various claims that I challenged in my Post 34. I don't doubt you believe you some goofy notions, I doubt your ability to put you truth to 'em.

If you believe that the content of any of my posts violate site guidelines feel free to report it (for "fraud"" or whatever offense you seefit).

My point is that when challenged to show your beliefs are true, you refused to even try. It's my contention that by your refusal to even attempt to support your claims / beliefs, you refuse to offer anything other'n maybe how proud you are for 'em. I further contend the observer now has data that may impact on their belief that you're incapable of showing your challenged claims have ever been introduced to truth.

This is the fraud I speak of. The fraud of the Christian debater who has him all the pride to declare his beliefs, in debate, he just all of a sudden lost him the ability to show his claims are truth. In debate. Debate.

What's to debate when you won't even attempt to support your challenged claims with anything other'n being you proud to've declared 'em? That's the fraud I speak of.

I shared my personal faith based opinion.

Then refused to support it.

I was not under the impression anyone is obliged to "prove" a belief or prove what religion they belong to for that matter.

"I Know, I'll put me forth my beliefs in debate 'cause it is, in debate, well nobody has to show they speak truth", is further evidence of the poor quality of one's thinking.

I do indeed declare to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I did not however declare that I would respond to every post directed at me.

I don't doubt many a Christian claimant'd prefer not have to deal with challenges to their claims.

And don't it beat all, here's us one that prefers him not to, in debate.

I presented what I believe the expression "in God's image" means as per the OP and presented the rationale therein for my belief. 
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 778#936778

And I'm simply offering you the opportunity to show your various claims / beliefs are grounded in truth.

Alas, you steadfastly refuse to do so.

Feel free to address the points or ignore them for what they are, opinion.

I think it's obvious that by responding, I ain't doing me no ignoring.

And again we see, you have you this wonderful ability to spout you your opinion, you just lack you the ability to show that opinion approaches it within a hundred light years of the truth.