Does Christianity enhance your mental health?

[Jagella]

In an older thread, The Mental-Illness Theory of Religion, I received the following response:

Second, in response to historia you wrote:

Some claim religious belief can be beneficial mentally, and others have come to the opposite conclusion

The first part of that statement is clearly true. In Psychology Today psychologist Rob Whitley wrote:
“The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as “religiosity�) is associated with better mental health.�

Question for Debate:In what ways has your Christian faith and practice improved your mental health?

[Jagella]

Ya, so are you guys pro-life, or pro-choice?

I don't think it's proper to label myself, but it's obviously good to avoid abortions by avoiding unwanted pregnancies. To avoid unwanted pregnancies, we should encourage sexually active women and men to use contraceptives. If unwanted pregnancies happen (and they will happen), then we should make sure those pregnant women have all the resources they need to properly care for their children.

Now I'm wondering who might be opposed to contraception and government funded child care.

[Tart]

[Replying to Jagella]

Ya, so the reason i ask is because we are talking about the death of children... How this is morally repulsive and we should be condemning any society as barbaric...

Is it Judaism that we should be condemning to satisfy our biases? OR should we be condemning our society as well?

I mean now... When we talk about it with our society, your tone is more indifferent

[Jagella]

[Replying to Jagella]Is it Judaism that we should be condemning to satisfy our biases? OR should we be condemning our society as well?

I mean now... When we talk about it with our society, your tone is more indifferent

I don't know what you mean by "tone," but killing innocent people of any age I see as wrong in any society. So yes, our society is without a doubt guilty of deliberately killing innocent people. Heck, I oppose killing criminals. The death penalty is very sick and barbaric.

But regarding the abortion issue, many of the "pro life" people actually fuel the drive for abortions. They wish to deny sexually active people contraceptives, and they very often wish to deny child-care assistance to needy parents. Denial of these services can drive a pregnant woman to seek an abortion. This callous attitude toward the born children makes the opposition to aborting unborn children very hypocritical to say the least. Most of the opposition to abortion as I see it has little to do with love or compassion but is actually based in religious dogma.

[Tart]

[Replying to Jagella]Is it Judaism that we should be condemning to satisfy our biases? OR should we be condemning our society as well?

I mean now... When we talk about it with our society, your tone is more indifferent

I don't know what you mean by "tone," but killing innocent people of any age I see as wrong in any society. So yes, our society is without a doubt guilty of deliberately killing innocent people. Heck, I oppose killing criminals. The death penalty is very sick and barbaric.

But regarding the abortion issue, many of the "pro life" people actually fuel the drive for abortions. They wish to deny sexually active people contraceptives, and they very often wish to deny child-care assistance to needy parents. Denial of these services can drive a pregnant woman to seek an abortion. This callous attitude toward the born children makes the opposition to aborting unborn children very hypocritical to say the least. Most of the opposition to abortion as I see it has little to do with love or compassion but is actually based in religious dogma.

well thats a shift in the debate that im not really interested in amusing...

But if Dr. Craig's moral claims are wrong, because he has justified the death of children (and not even justifying as if it is acceptable in this day and age, but justifying that God has the right to do as he will)... Then pro-choicer like, Barrack Obama, or Plan Parenthood, are just as guilty. Justifying the morality of children's deaths...


So whats the point? IDK, maybe the point is for you guys to be consistent... And not establishing your morals on anti-Christianity, that is not a good place to establish morality... But having a good and valid foundation for your morals. That would be a good start... Id suggest to you Jesus Christ

[Jagella]

Most of the opposition to abortion as I see it has little to do with love or compassion but is actually based in religious dogma.

well thats a shift in the debate that im not really interested in amusing...

Then why did you bring up the topic of aborting fetuses? The "shift in the debate" was your own. I do hope you weren't looking for an easy rhetorical victory only to bail out of the issue when you realized that no such easy rhetorical victory was forthcoming.

Anyway, as I see it debates are not for the purpose of convincing others that we are right but to establish a common understanding of the truth. So I suggest you be open to the truth and not try to slip out of any vexing issues if you run into trouble debating those issues.

But if Dr. Craig's moral claims are wrong, because he has justified the death of children (and not even justifying as if it is acceptable in this day and age, but justifying that God has the right to do as he will)...

I thought that you did not wish to discuss abortion or is it only my position on the abortion you do not wish to "amuse"?

As far as I know neither Craig nor anybody else for that matter has demonstrated how their gods can kill people with moral impunity. What's scary about such a belief is that it results in the conclusion that any god people might believe in not only has the moral right to kill people but the right to command believers to kill those people. Any such believer can proclaim himself the mouthpiece of his god telling others that "god X" has commanded them to wipe out "people Y."

Then pro-choicer like, Barrack Obama, or Plan Parenthood, are just as guilty. Justifying the morality of children's deaths...

If these parties are wrong being guilty for children's deaths, then how does the Bible get off as justified in its stories that glorify deadly violence? In other words, to say, "God told you and me to kill" cannot be shown to be any more morally justified than to say, "Planned Parenthood told you and me to kill unborn children." As I see it, using belief in a god as justification for violence does not make violence moral.

So whats the point? IDK, maybe the point is for you guys to be consistent...

Then I ask you to be consistent concluding that the Bible's deadly violence is every bit as bad as anybody's deadly violence.

And not establishing your morals on anti-Christianity, that is not a good place to establish morality...

Who is "establishing their morals on anti-Christianity"? Actually, I've arrived at my morality in much the same way you have. We both live in a modern, secular society that prohibits mass murder and any other unjustified violence. If we differ, it is in that I do not make any exceptions to this morality for religious reasons.

But having a good and valid foundation for your morals. That would be a good start...

I really don't have a "foundation" for morals, or if I do, then that foundation is built upon reason. In other words, I apply reason to arrive at decisions regarding right and wrong. I think it's really foolish to base my morals on any self-proclaimed prophet of some god. That person might be mentally ill or violent.

Id suggest to you Jesus Christ

Speaking of mentally ill or violent! I did "try Jesus Christ," and I assume you know the result.

[Tart]

Most of the opposition to abortion as I see it has little to do with love or compassion but is actually based in religious dogma.

well thats a shift in the debate that im not really interested in amusing...

Then why did you bring up the topic of aborting fetuses? The "shift in the debate" was your own. I do hope you weren't looking for an easy rhetorical victory only to bail out of the issue when you realized that no such easy rhetorical victory was forthcoming.

Ya so you guys brought up the murdering of children, and that is what we are talking about... Im not really interested in discussing how you think pro-life is fueling abortion, or people denying people birth control methods, child assistance... Or whatever... That is irrelevant to the conversation... The justification of killing kids.

Anyway, as I see it debates are not for the purpose of convincing others that we are right but to establish a common understanding of the truth. So I suggest you be open to the truth and not try to slip out of any vexing issues if you run into trouble debating those issues.

Im not running from anything. I think God has the right to do as he will, which if God wills destiny like that of Jesus on the cross, God may will the death of all of us in some way...

Jesus is the pinnacle of righteousness, and the foundation of our values today.

But if Dr. Craig's moral claims are wrong, because he has justified the death of children (and not even justifying as if it is acceptable in this day and age, but justifying that God has the right to do as he will)...

I thought that you did not wish to discuss abortion or is it only my position on the abortion you do not wish to "amuse"?

No i dont want to discuss your problems with the pro-life movement... Which just FYI, i have no problem with people being able to obtaining birth control, or assistance for struggling parents, or anything you are raising agianst the pro-life movement... Thats why i dont even want to discuss it... This is about the justification of killing kids, which you guys brought up... In fact, this is about mental health for believers, which was derailed already on questioning the morality of people who justify God's behavior in ancient Israel, saying God has the right to do as He wills. And I agree with that... God has the right to do as he wills...

As far as I know neither Craig nor anybody else for that matter has demonstrated how their gods can kill people with moral impunity. What's scary about such a belief is that it results in the conclusion that any god people might believe in not only has the moral right to kill people but the right to command believers to kill those people. Any such believer can proclaim himself the mouthpiece of his god telling others that "god X" has commanded them to wipe out "people Y."

Ok so as Christian we believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God who we should look to for guidance in how we behave, and that false prophets are deceiving people into believing in wickedness... And ill stand by that...

Jesus is the pinnacle of righteousness... Christianity certainly doesn't teach anyone to kill anyone.. In fact they teach against hating anyone... And Christianity tells us to beware of false teachers, especially if they go against the teachings of Christ...

This comment couldnt be farther from the truth:
"What's scary about such a belief is that it results in the conclusion that any god people might believe in not only has the moral right to kill people but the right to command believers to kill those people."

This isnt compatible with Christianity like you are suggesting. And even expanding on that, how does atheism say anything about a valid foundation for morality and righteousness?

Then pro-choicer like, Barrack Obama, or Plan Parenthood, are just as guilty. Justifying the morality of children's deaths...

If these parties are wrong being guilty for children's deaths, then how does the Bible get off as justified in its stories that glorify deadly violence? In other words, to say, "God told you and me to kill" cannot be shown to be any more morally justified than to say, "Planned Parenthood told you and me to kill unborn children." As I see it, using belief in a god as justification for violence does not make violence moral.

You right, there is no justified violence from God... Christ turned the other cheek, and he even prayed for the people who killed him. Like objectively evil people, he prayed for their forgiveness. Jesus Christ is the foundation of our righteousness, and he brought on the values we hold today with the New Covenant...

So whats the point? IDK, maybe the point is for you guys to be consistent...

Then I ask you to be consistent concluding that the Bible's deadly violence is every bit as bad as anybody's deadly violence.

By my standards today, i would condemn any murder.. Although, perhaps the death penalty is justified...

And not establishing your morals on anti-Christianity, that is not a good place to establish morality...

Who is "establishing their morals on anti-Christianity"? Actually, I've arrived at my morality in much the same way you have. We both live in a modern, secular society that prohibits mass murder and any other unjustified violence. If we differ, it is in that I do not make any exceptions to this morality for religious reasons.

Well i think we all have certain intrinsic values embedded in us, knowledge of right and wrong, the Bible teaches, goes back to the beginning. Christianity helps shed light on our present state of morality, for example

"They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them"~Paul (Romans)

This is true, because Christianity is true, and Jesus is the foundation of our entire society, and is the pinnacle of righteousness.

But having a good and valid foundation for your morals. That would be a good start...

I really don't have a "foundation" for morals, or if I do, then that foundation is built upon reason. In other words, I apply reason to arrive at decisions regarding right and wrong. I think it's really foolish to base my morals on any self-proclaimed prophet of some god. That person might be mentally ill or violent.

Ok, so you instead base your morals on your reasoning... So what if you're mentally ill or violent? Or another person might be mentally ill and violent, and reason for himself? What then? Are YOU the judge of everyone morality? Or just yours?

Id suggest to you Jesus Christ

Speaking of mentally ill or violent! I did "try Jesus Christ," and I assume you know the result.

Well thats too bad, becuase Jesus Christ is the foundation for truth, and knowledge, and righteousness... Without God, i dont think people even recognize their sin in which they should turn and repent from...

[Tcg]

So what if you're mentally ill or violent?

You mean like Jesus?

Revelation 19:

"14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.� He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

King of Kings and Lord of Lords."

According to your model of perfect righteousness, violence is a plus.

Jesus may have pretended to be an example of non-violent love in the gospels, if you don't read too closely, but in the end his true psychopathic violent nature will be revealed.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 36 by Tart]

Christianity certainly doesn't teach anyone to kill anyone.. In fact they teach against hating anyone... And Christianity tells us to beware of false teachers, especially if they go against the teachings of Christ...

Tart, this claim of yours won't work on us atheist/agnostics/non-believers. We don't have a 'Nice Christianity is the True Christianity by default' mindset.
I've heard from all sorts of preachers who identify as Christians who say all sorts of horrible things.

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Your claim here doesn't work because it's not like we think that a hate-spewing preacher like the above must by default not be a quote unquote True Christian (tm).

Are Roman Catholic priests going against what are supposedly the teachings of Christ when they say the Bishop of Rome is Christ's Vicar? They say that IS Christ's teaching, and they pull Bible quotes that appear to validate their claim.

For all you know, Christianity DOES teach to kill people. After all, Jesus is the Son of the God featured in the Old Testament, isn't he? Was Jesus quoted as saying that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away? Oh I know, you'll probably retort by saying that the old law was fulfilled, done away with, via Jesus's death and resurrection...but again, that is your own belief, your own interpretation, which is not the quote unquote default teaching.

This comment couldnt be farther from the truth:
"What's scary about such a belief is that it results in the conclusion that any god people might believe in not only has the moral right to kill people but the right to command believers to kill those people."

This isnt compatible with Christianity like you are suggesting.

And yet, if God were to command something, that's what has to be done, isn't it? If God commands you, Tart, to kill someone...you have to follow that command? Please do not retort by saying you don't even have to consider it because 'of course' God would never do such a thing: there is precedent in the Old Testament of him doing just that.
Besides, the history of Christianity for the past 2,000 years is a religion filled with bloodshed. I'm not aware of anyone saying in the build up to the Crusades that the priests and bishops and popes calling for armies to head to the Middle East are just wrong to do so, that this isn't what Christ wants.

You have no idea of the number of times in conversations I've had with other people who identify as Christian, that they have said that God is absolute, God makes the rules, what God commands goes...and of course, this would inevitably include God commanding them to kill.

[bluethread]

But regarding the abortion issue, many of the "pro life" people actually fuel the drive for abortions. They wish to deny sexually active people contraceptives, and they very often wish to deny child-care assistance to needy parents. Denial of these services can drive a pregnant woman to seek an abortion. This callous attitude toward the born children makes the opposition to aborting unborn children very hypocritical to say the least. Most of the opposition to abortion as I see it has little to do with love or compassion but is actually based in religious dogma.

The denial of contraceptives is primarily among orthodox Roman Catholics. It was common some time ago, but that has really been really related to abortifacients. There are so many forms of birth control today that are not abortifacients, it is basically a nonissue anymore. If you are talking about government provision of birth control, that is really a nonissue also, since birth control products are so prevalent in these United States cost is not an issue.

With regard to medical costs, child birth is considered a life threatening condition, therefore it is mandated that medical facilities provide services at no cost to those who do not have the means to pay. When it comes to raising the child, adoption is available and various nongovernmental organizations are able to provide assistance. The problem with government assistance is that it tends to separate the parent from community and it is community that makes for a healthy child. To get back to the OP, Christianity enhances mental health by encouraging family and community, even mandating that members care for one another. This mandate is better than government assistance, because it includes holding the parent and child accountable to the community that provides assistance to the family. Governments are too far removed to be able to provide such accountability. In fact, governments are often mandated to not hold the recipients of assistance accountable.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 36 by Tart]

Christianity certainly doesn't teach anyone to kill anyone.. In fact they teach against hating anyone... And Christianity tells us to beware of false teachers, especially if they go against the teachings of Christ...

Tart, this claim of yours won't work on us atheist/agnostics/non-believers. We don't have a 'Nice Christianity is the True Christianity by default' mindset.
I've heard from all sorts of preachers who identify as Christians who say all sorts of horrible things.

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Your claim here doesn't work because it's not like we think that a hate-spewing preacher like the above must by default not be a quote unquote True Christian (tm).

Are Roman Catholic priests going against what are supposedly the teachings of Christ when they say the Bishop of Rome is Christ's Vicar? They say that IS Christ's teaching, and they pull Bible quotes that appear to validate their claim.

For all you know, Christianity DOES teach to kill people. After all, Jesus is the Son of the God featured in the Old Testament, isn't he? Was Jesus quoted as saying that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away? Oh I know, you'll probably retort by saying that the old law was fulfilled, done away with, via Jesus's death and resurrection...but again, that is your own belief, your own interpretation, which is not the quote unquote default teaching.

This comment couldnt be farther from the truth:
"What's scary about such a belief is that it results in the conclusion that any god people might believe in not only has the moral right to kill people but the right to command believers to kill those people."

This isnt compatible with Christianity like you are suggesting.

And yet, if God were to command something, that's what has to be done, isn't it? If God commands you, Tart, to kill someone...you have to follow that command? Please do not retort by saying you don't even have to consider it because 'of course' God would never do such a thing: there is precedent in the Old Testament of him doing just that.
Besides, the history of Christianity for the past 2,000 years is a religion filled with bloodshed. I'm not aware of anyone saying in the build up to the Crusades that the priests and bishops and popes calling for armies to head to the Middle East are just wrong to do so, that this isn't what Christ wants.

You have no idea of the number of times in conversations I've had with other people who identify as Christian, that they have said that God is absolute, God makes the rules, what God commands goes...and of course, this would inevitably include God commanding them to kill.

Ya so I believe Jesus demonstrated the righteousness of God by laying down his life on the cross for the forgiveness of sinners. I mean, i dont even believe in the ideology of the Southern Baptist... If I believed that they were right, you could perhaps question me about their morality, but I dont believe in their methodologies.. So thus, straw-mans are built to be knocked down.... If this is a question of if their teachings are aligned with Christianity, that is another question, but you specifically say that isnt the question, and assert their teachings align with Christianity... Thus you are assuming the position of a straw-man that has nothing to do with my beliefs.

In fact, this entire post is questioning the morality i dont assume.. So go ahead... It is irrelevant to my beliefs... Christ is the pinnacle of righteousness that I look to for guidance...