Over sixty valid deities in the OT

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Willum
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Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #1

Post by Willum »

So I knew there were other gods listed in the Torah/OT, but I didn't realize there were over sixty!

Sixty deities spoken about as if they were, to spout the phrase, "living gods."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... brew_Bible

How can the OT claim to be monotheistic, when Asherah (Ha-Sarah), is Yahweh's wife, and so many other deities are part of the narrative?

We all thought Judaism was monotheistic, but it has as many gods as any other religion.

Can anyone explain this?

If you are Judaic, is it OK to worship one of the less bloodthirsty ones? Dagon, god of grain and the oceans, seems nice.

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #81

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Willum wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:29 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #79]

Except your god also interacts with these gods. The only way your god could interact with non-existent deities is if he were non-existent himself.
Do you have a reference for this point?
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #82

Post by Diagoras »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:58 pm Fair enough. The bible acknowledges the existence of other "gods" in a similar way to how many atheists I know "acknowledge the existence of other gods" i.e it recognises that humans have invented "gods" in their imagination and built up systems of worship around such so-called gods which in reality do not exist anywhere but in the imagination of believers.
I’m glad we’re getting towards a consensus. Do you see any merit in exploring whether 586 BCE was a ‘transition point’ between these other gods being more or less ‘legitimate’?

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #83

Post by Willum »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #81]

Again, I do have a reference.
I remain curious, and demand an answer to why you do not.

Were I faithful to a deity and his works, a simple reference would suffice.
It does for me even for your religion.

That you do not know what part of your “most holy truth,” I refer to, simply tells me that you do not take it nearly as seriously as I do.

And I consider it a fairytale.
Do you still require this non-believer to fetch that which should be at the tips of your fingers, if not your tongue?

Kind regards otherwise,

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #84

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:04 am
Do you see any merit in exploring whether 586 BCE was a ‘transition point’ between these other gods being more or less ‘legitimate’?

I do not understand what you mean by "more or less legitimate"?
Legitimate, means "accordant with law or with established legal forms and requirements" so if you asking when the worship of any of these gods became legally acceptable? I would say there is nothing in the Hebrew bible that has indicates there has ever been a legal requirement to worship any God but YWHH /Jehovah.



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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #85

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #84]

Maybe ‘legitimate’ isn’t the most appropriate word, then. I’m not trying to defend any legal claim.

I’m just curious to know whether OT books written after 586 BCE make significantly fewer references to multiple gods than those written before that time. The bible apparently isn’t set out in strict chronological order, and I don’t know enough to be able to analyse it in that way to test my query.

Does that clarification help?

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #86

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:39 am [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #84]


I’m just curious to know whether OT books written after 586 BCE make significantly fewer references to multiple gods than those written before that time.

I think it's safe to say far fewer. As may have been pointed out in this thread, prior to the Babylonian exile the Jews periodically fell to (illegally) worshiping the gods of the nations around them but while by all accounts they had their faults after that exile, they never again succumbed en mass to worshipping foreign gods.



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Why reject perverted pagan gods ?
viewtopic.php?p=991212#p991212
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #87

Post by Willum »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #86]
I think it's safe to say far fewer. As may have been pointed out in this thread...
That the OT/Torah formerly cited the existence and worship of multiple deities, until it was bastardized to hentotheism, then monotheism.
Please follow the thread.

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #88

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Willum wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:17 am .... the OT/Torah formerly cited the existence and worship of multiple deities ...
Why do you say "formerly" as I pointed out in my earlier post, there are still numerous texts in the bible that refer to the existence (at least in the imagination of their worshippers) and worship of pagan gods. For more details on this point please see POST#79 linked HERE
viewtopic.php?p=1020135#p1020135


Willum wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:17 am .... the OT/Torah .... was bastardized to hentotheism, then monotheism.

Are you suggesting the content of the original Hebrew religious texts were tolerant of the worship of pagan gods but that that content was changed over the course of time to the reflect the strictly monotheistic rhetoric* we find in the Hebrew canon today ?

If so do you have any supporting evidence for this position?

* monotheistic as in a heavy emphasis that the worship of the One True God Jehovah YHWH being the only legitimate subject of worship.

JW
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #89

Post by Willum »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #88]

We have covered this before, we have elaborated these before. Please accept or refute points made, not deny or question them.
Doing this does not forward your position, it simply makes it look as if your are unwilling to read.
When you can, I'll respond, until then, we both really know the truth, the Hebrew were as polytheistic as any given pagan.

My work here is done.

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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT

Post #90

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:11 am


Willum wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:17 am .... the OT/Torah .... was bastardized to hentotheism, then monotheism.

Are you suggesting the content of the original Hebrew religious texts were tolerant of the worship of pagan gods but that that content was changed over the course of time to the reflect the strictly monotheistic rhetoric* we find in the Hebrew canon today ?

If so do you have any supporting evidence for this position?

* monotheistic as in a heavy emphasis that the worship of the One True God Jehovah YHWH being the only legitimate subject of worship.

JW
Willum wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:40 pm
My work here is done.

Fine, not a problem. I'll be happy to examine any evidence you care to present in response to the above request should you change your mind.


In any case I have enjoyed the discussion and wish you a most agreeable week,


JW




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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