Giving Up Sin to be a Christian

[Jagella]

Many Christian apologists tend to get a bit frustrated with the skeptics. All of the apologists' arguments and evidence often just don't convince many atheists and other unbelievers. How can those arguments and evidences fail to convince? So often the only answer to this question rests on the belief that the skeptics must be unwilling to give up their sin to become Christians. So...

Question for Debate: What sin might any of you unbelievers need to give up to become Christians?

Personally, I suppose I would need to give up swearing, cursing, and looking at porn although I know it's common for Christians to indulge in these sins.

[07-07-07]

The Saints of God will inherit eternal life and sinners will inherit eternal damnation in hell fire. The fires in California and Queensland, Austrailia are a prelude of what life is like in hell fire.

Isn't it a sin to torture people in fire? Our modern secular morality has moved beyond such barbarism. Civilized people no longer approve of torture. The Christian belief in eternal damnation arose in a place and time in which people were angry over being conquered by the Roman Empire. Most of the Jews in particular hated the Romans and wanted the Romans out of Israel. So it should come as no surprise at all that some of the Jews adopted belief in an angry and violent god of war who would punish the Romans in the worst way imaginable. The way those Jews imagined the Romans would be punished became the Christian dogma of eternal hellfire which was expanded as the fate for all those who did not believe in Jesus.

So my point here is that Christian belief is a kind of sin if we understand sin as a violent and bloodthirsty lust for revenge.

It's of the person's own doing because they rejected God's way of salvation. There are only two roads in life, God's way or satans' way. If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence. God gives plenty of warning, so we will reap what we sow.

[William]

[Replying to post 61 by 07-07-07]

It's of the person's own doing because they rejected God's way of salvation. There are only two roads in life, God's way or satans' way. If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence. God gives plenty of warning, so we will reap what we sow.

I am wondering. You seem so sure about this belief, and appear to hold a lot of faith in it.

Is this faith-based belief negotiable? Are you open to changing your mind about it?

[07-07-07]

[Replying to post 61 by 07-07-07]

It's of the person's own doing because they rejected God's way of salvation. There are only two roads in life, God's way or satans' way. If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence. God gives plenty of warning, so we will reap what we sow.

I am wondering. You seem so sure about this belief, and appear to hold a lot of faith in it.

The Lord Jesus gives one plenty of evidence as we walk with Him, so that leads to confidence.

Is this faith-based belief negotiable? Are you open to changing your mind about it?

It's non-negotiable because Jesus is the only way.

[Jagella]

It's of the person's own doing because they rejected God's way of salvation.

What you've posted here is one of the biggest misunderstandings in Christian apologetics. Few if any people reject any kind of salvation. It is more accurate to say that many people fail to become convinced by claims of salvation. There are thousands of religions all claiming to offer some kind of reward in exchange for belief and very often for money. In addition to Christianity, Islam offers its own kind of salvation involving sex with seventy-two virgins! Muslims will tell you that if you do not submit to Allah, then you will be punished eternally.

So 007, I'm wondering who is right: you, Muslims, or somebody else or maybe nobody else is right, and all claims of salvation are bogus. The evidence that religions offer for their salvation is much the same; it's just a lot of words that anybody can say. Since the claims made by religions are so outlandish, I cannot believe them if I tried! So if the god you believe in is real, then he will damn me for not believing something I cannot believe. Such a sin on his part would be the greatest evil. Do you honestly think I deserve to burn in hell?

There are only two roads in life, God's way or satans' way. If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence. God gives plenty of warning, so we will reap what we sow.

Do I detect anger or hostility in what you're posting here? I hope you don't hate people because they don't believe what you do.

[Bust Nak]

I don't need your affirmation of who I am and the truth that I live by. The Scriptures speak truth, and I follow them.

Romans 6
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

None of these says Christians don't sin. Instead they say Christian should refrain from sin.

I used to be a liar, but Jesus made me a new person, so I don't lie nor do I knowingly sin anymore.

I noticed that you say you don't knowingly sin anymore, as opposed to you don't sin anymore. Ready to retract/adment your earlier claim that "the children of God don't sin" yet?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 61 by 07-07-07]

If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence.

I don't believe in the existence of Satan, so how do I choose his way? I don't knowingly sin either, I just don't believe in your God. Is hell fire waiting for me? If yes, do you think that is fair?

[Jagella]

If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence.

I don't believe in the existence of Satan, so how do I choose his way? I don't knowingly sin either, I just don't believe in your God. Is hell fire waiting for me? If yes, do you think that is fair?

Belief in Satan is very dangerous. It induces paranoia and can lead to violence. It's frightening that people still believe in such a pernicious superstition.

[07-07-07]

[Replying to post 65 by Bust Nak]

I noticed that you say you don't knowingly sin anymore, as opposed to you don't sin anymore. Ready to retract/adment your earlier claim that "the children of God don't sin" yet?

I have already cited Scripture stating that the children of God don't sin, so would you hear it again? I suspect not. One is either a Saint in the eyes of God or a sinner; those are the only two kinds of people. The former is on their way to Paradise while the latter is on their way to hell fire.

1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

[07-07-07]

[Replying to post 61 by 07-07-07]

If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence.

I don't believe in the existence of Satan, so how do I choose his way? I don't knowingly sin either, I just don't believe in your God. Is hell fire waiting for me? If yes, do you think that is fair?

Yes, it's fair. God is just in all His doings. Secondly, your chosen lack of belief in satan/hell changes nothing.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 61 by 07-07-07]

If one chooses satan's way, hell fire is the consequence.

I don't believe in the existence of Satan, so how do I choose his way? I don't knowingly sin either, I just don't believe in your God. Is hell fire waiting for me? If yes, do you think that is fair?

Yes, it's fair. God is just in all His doings. Secondly, your chosen lack of belief in satan/hell changes nothing.

No, it's not fair and your God is not just in all his doings. He has never demonstrated his very existence let alone any of the attributes invented for him by humans.

I did not choose to lack belief in Satan or hell or any of this supernatural mumbo jumbo. I am unable to believe it. Further, I maintain that the vast majority of believers did not choose their belief either. They were inculcated with those beliefs through indoctrination when their minds were most vulnerable. Sadly, it is not unlike drug addiction and very hard to shake off once it takes hold.