Is God good and merciful?

[marco]

Often when we point out the destructive force that Yahweh is in the Old Testament we are told that we concentrate too much on his role as judge and punisher. We are reminded he is love and mercy in boundless quantities.

Is it right to ignore the dark side of Yahweh?

Does the bright side of Yahweh add up to a being who is infinitely merciful and loving?

[1213]

...If we are not meant to make the obvious deductions, the story is rendered meaningless...

To make deductions, I think one should read the whole book first. Otherwise one probably ends up making bad and wrong deductions.

[marco]

To make deductions, I think one should read the whole book first. Otherwise one probably ends up making bad and wrong deductions.

I have read beyond the story. It is far from obvious why one must read the entire Bible before one can understand a particular story in it. Do you suppose some people are gifted with divine insight, denied to most other readers?

[ttruscott]

There are countless passages where Christians’s beloved god: Yahweh inflicts or orders the Israelites to inflict countless pain, suffering and death to countless children, infants; punishes or orders the Israelites to punish the adults together with the children, infants.

On the contrary: There are countless passages where Christian’s beloved GOD, Yahweh, orders the Israelites to execute HIS righteous judgment of pain, suffering and death to countless children, infants; punishes or orders the Israelites to punish the adults together with the children, infants...for their sins against perfect righteousness.

Death is the wages for sin, not for creation, not for birth.
If you don't sin you will never die.
Michael and Gabriel will never die as they have never sinned.

Since humans have died from the moment of conception it is proof that at the moment of conception they are sinners. Death proves sin. And a sin unto death proves our free will, that is, that every zygote is a sinner by its own free will decisions made before it became entwined with the human matrix.

[Tcg]

Death proves sin.

Death provides evidence that all animals, including humans, are mortal. The concept of sin proves that people invented the concept of sin.



Tcg

[1213]

...Do you suppose some people are gifted with divine insight, denied to most other readers?

I think, it is crucial to know what the whole Bible says, especially for those who are without divine insight, because Bible explains what it means in many parts. But I believe it is possible to have “divine insight�, it is called the Holy Spirit, which is like teacher:

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
John 14:26

…the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13

If person has that, he doesn’t have to know whole Bible, but how he understands things will be on line with the whole Bible with help of the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit will not contradict anything in the Bible.

The difficulty is, can person remain in truth, or does he rather listen to lies or what he desires to be truth, instead of the truth.

[Don McIntosh]

Often when we point out the destructive force that Yahweh is in the Old Testament we are told that we concentrate too much on his role as judge and punisher. We are reminded he is love and mercy in boundless quantities.

Is it right to ignore the dark side of Yahweh?

Does the bright side of Yahweh add up to a being who is infinitely merciful and loving?

Marco, I have little doubt that God exists, and yet I would have to confess that there are times when God's goodness can only be perceived faintly and distantly, by faith, when experience argues rather noisily to the contrary. In fact there are times when I frankly resent the various pains, disappointments and humiliations I've had to endure as one of his own, and I don't like God much at all.

But, this being a fallen world with countless hosts of sinful men continually committing evil acts and churning up evil's painful consequences, I have no idea what kinds of actions God would have to take to restore Paradise while keeping human moral freedom roughly intact. Maybe he has to temporarily appear dark rather than bright in order to step into the darkness and clean up the mess. Maybe we have to join him in the effort. Jesus left the glory of the Father's presence to die for sins on the cross, and in the process he shared in the deepest of our sufferings.

In any case I admittedly don't have the wisdom and eternal perspective to sort it all out. As Darwin noted, "A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton." Paul spun it a bit more cheerfully: "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!"

[marco]

Marco, I have little doubt that God exists, and yet I would have to confess that there are times when God's goodness can only be perceived faintly and distantly, by faith, when experience argues rather noisily to the contrary.

Don, I have no doubt that Yahweh does not exist. I accept he is superior to wooden totems or stone statues; he is a literary work of art, fitting his purpose perfectly. He frightens by swamping the globe or destroying entire cities; he is an angry, furious invisible in whom love seems a misplacement. There may - and I hope there is- be some force or forces beyond our infant grasp. I don't accept something that sends frogs to Egypt, kills first born children or plays silly games in conjunction with Satan and even gets interested in an old woman's pregnancy.

But, this being a fallen world with countless hosts of sinful men continually committing evil acts and churning up evil's painful consequences....

The world is not without its good souls. We are no more fallen than divine. There are among us naked natives who still spear animals to survive; there are people whose lives are devoted to the service of others; we have laws more remarkable than those found in the Old Testament, and without Christ's imprimatur we have stumbled on cures for hideous diseases, diseases that were not of our making. Man is a noble beast, and his condemnation of the wicked deeds of some members of homo sapiens does man much credit. We do not applaud crime: we punish it. God impotently supervised the Holocaust, if one supposes the God of the Jews survived into the 20th century.

Paul spun it a bit more cheerfully: "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!"

We can imagine and elaborate, as does Paul. The creative mind of man has done that through the centuries. Goethe wrote a wonderful poem, Erlkönig, about the death of a boy transported by an Elf King. Paul simply refuses to furnish his imagined heaven but other great writers have intrigued us. It doesn't grant God existence, nor goodness nor mercy.

[Don McIntosh]

Marco, I have little doubt that God exists, and yet I would have to confess that there are times when God's goodness can only be perceived faintly and distantly, by faith, when experience argues rather noisily to the contrary.

Don, I have no doubt that Yahweh does not exist. I accept he is superior to wooden totems or stone statues; he is a literary work of art, fitting his purpose perfectly. He frightens by swamping the globe or destroying entire cities; he is an angry, furious invisible in whom love seems a misplacement. There may - and I hope there is- be some force or forces beyond our infant grasp. I don't accept something that sends frogs to Egypt, kills first born children or plays silly games in conjunction with Satan and even gets interested in an old woman's pregnancy.

In principle I can accept all of that and more, not because those things do not sometimes mystify me, but because I have no idea of what exactly would be involved in the just management of a world inhabited by billions of independent free moral agents delegated with the power to do both good and evil and thereby unleash their consequences.

But it seems to me that the above set of highlights from the OT focuses on the outliers and extremities rather than the basic revelation of the divine character. He swamped the globe once, yes, in an act of the very sort of "condemnation of the wicked deeds of men" you mention further below in your post, followed with the promise to Noah and his descendants to preserve the earth and oversee the order of its seasons going forward. He does terrible things to Egypt, but only after repeated demonstrations of his power and clear warnings that worse would come unless his people were freed from bondage. He permits the heartbreaking torment of righteous Job, but also secures his blessing at the end, not just with restored material goods, recaptured joy and a new crop of children, but by a panoramic vision of the mighty God who remains always just beyond human understanding.

Most importantly, he is now preparing for his people a new world in which righteousness dwells (and where sin and selfishness have no place). Our purpose in this present world, it could be argued, is to decide whether we really want to live in the new one. We've tasted the bitter fruit of the knowledge of good and evil (for me it tastes too much of pain and too little of joy). But thanks to the redemptive work of Jesus, the offer to taste of the tree of life is once again before us.

[marco]

But it seems to me that the above set of highlights from the OT focuses on the outliers and extremities rather than the basic revelation of the divine character.

This would be an excellent refutation of what I said, Don, were there an abundance of benefactions from God, and the terrors mere "outliers". Instead, we deduce philosophically that an almighty being must be all-merciful and loving. We don't see much biblical evidence.

He does terrible things to Egypt, but only after repeated demonstrations of his power

When Pharaoh is appealed to by some native he is entitled to believe the man is lying. Lots of frogs might not impress a great ruler. The scenes are theatrical.

He permits the heartbreaking torment of righteous Job, but also secures his blessing at the end, not just with restored material goods, recaptured joy and a new crop of children,

The new "crop of children" is hardly compensation. Was it two for the price of one? The script writers seem singularly deficient in humanity.

Most importantly, he is now preparing for his people a new world in which righteousness dwells (and where sin and selfishness have no place).

I see no signs of his "preparations". I see man advancing, conquering disease but across the globe suffering pain. God is distinguished by his policy of non-intervention, at least in the anno domini era.

But thanks to the redemptive work of Jesus, the offer to taste of the tree of life is once again before us.

An offer, of itself, is valueless. The Promised Land is always an age away. Was it really a kindness to let people walk through the wilderness for forty years, then offer land that belonged to other people? We extract kindness by giving it, not by expecting it after the next rainstorm.